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Thread: Zen Mind, Beginners Mind

  1. #1
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    Default Zen Mind, Beginners Mind

    Has anyone here read the book by Shunryu Suzuki. There is a chapter that I still cannot understand. Can anyone help me ?

    ____________________________________________________________________
    On page 31, CONTROL. The passage is:

    "To give your sheep or cow a large spacious meadow is the way to control him"

    on Page 32 on the same Subject:

    "The best way to control people is to allow them to be mischeivous"
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Any help is greatly appreciated...Thank again !
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

  2. #2
    Gene Williams Guest

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    Prince, My absolutely favorite zen book...I keep it on my reading table right by the Bible and Shakespeare, and Dickens. Now, if I gave you the answer, that would not really be in the zen spirit, would it? What do the aikido people do when attacked? Look at that as a hint. Gene

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    Default Gene !

    aaarrrgggg ! Gene! I am gonna keel over from think too hard .
    oops ! Wrong attitude...Must calm mind !


    Seriously, I am starting to like this book. No matter how many times you read this, it seems to lose the insights.

    Thanks Gene As always !
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

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    Originally posted by Gene Williams
    ....What do the aikido people do when attacked? ...
    Get beaten up?
    Ed Boyd

  5. #5
    Gene Williams Guest

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    Ed, You can be very difficult...

  6. #6
    Samurai am I Guest

    Talking Oh I see

    Ha Ha I get it....I think.

  7. #7
    mech Guest

    Post what question?

    What ever doubts you have, you yourself are giving your own answers

    in this respectively two...

    "aaarrrgggg ! Gene! I am gonna keel over from think too hard .
    oops ! Wrong attitude...Must calm mind !"


    "Seriously, I am starting to like this book. No matter how many times you read this, it seems to lose the insights.

    Quite excellent!

    mech
    manuel chiquito anderson

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    I love this book. The picture of Suzuki on the back is great. Everytime I read it, I realize something new, not just about my meditation, but about my mind and spirit.
    Truly an inspirational work.
    And it makes a great gift!
    Jack Wilkinson

  9. #9
    wendy ongaro Guest

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    prince- a similar saying in our culture would be-

    "Give him enough rope and he will hang himself."

    I also think of the Tarantino film Jackie Brown when Deniro's character is asking Jackson's character why he trusts Bridgette Fonda.

    LOUIS Do you trust Melanie?

    Ordell stops unloading.

    ORDELL If this is about you いいed Melanie, I don't give a damn. I ain't
    a fool. I leave you alone with a bitch like Melanie, you're gonna be
    いいin' that twenty minutes after I'm out the door. So say "thank you"
    and I'll tell you, "you're welcome."

    LOUIS That's not what I meant when I asked did you trust her.

    Ordell looks at him.

    ORDELL She tryin' to work your ass against me, ain't she?

    LOUIS Yep.

    ORDELL You didn't even hafta say it. I know the woman.

    LOUIS Well, why the いい keep her around?

    ORDELL (smiling) Cause she my fine little surfer gal. She can't do me
    no harm. Fact she think she can play you against me shows how little she
    knows. You could teach that bitch for days how it is tween me an you,
    she never understand a damn word.

    LOUIS Why do you let someone know your business you can't trust?

    ORDELL I don't hafta trust her, I know her.

    LOUIS What does that mean?

    ORDELL You can't trust Melanie. But you can always trust Melanie to be
    Melanie.

    Louis starts unloading.

    LOUIS I still don't understand why you keep her around.

    ORDELL I told you, man. (smiling) She my fine little surfer gal.

    Let people be true to their natures, and you can predict their actions with little effort. When you can predict their actions, you have control over them.

    This is how I would interpret that Koan.

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    Exactly- you are in the best position when you know what the possibilities are.
    Another good part of the book is early, when he's explaining Breathing, he touches on the pitfalls of dualism. It changed my life. I read it for the first time twelve years ago, and it still sits in my mind as boldly as the day I first read it.
    Good, Bad, Right, Wrong are all concepts that exist solely in your mind.
    Jack Wilkinson

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    Default Hello Wendy.

    Thanks Wendy,

    Hmmmm..I didn't think about that. I liked your interpretation. I approached my sensei regarding its innterpretation and he just smiled at me ( much like Gene here ) and told me to re-read it and stop trying to analyze it. I got so deep into trying to figure it out, that I was further and deeper away from what the book was trying to convey.

    Captnight:

    I just started reading this book about 3 weeks ago. From the looks of things I am gonna have to spend 30 years minimum
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

  12. #12
    wendy ongaro Guest

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    you and me both. I often like to read zen koan and the tao just before bed as a reflective practice. I just open the book to whatever page it happens to fall open at by chance, read it and reflect on it, sleep on it. sometimes the passage will provide direct insight into whatever problems I am dealing with at the time. sometimes it is just an interesting exercise.

  13. #13
    Gene Williams Guest

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    Hi, I am glad that so many of you are reading Suzuki's, "Zen mind, Beginner's Mind." He has a second book, "Not Always So", which I like as well. For those of you in arts that do kata, read Zen Mind again and everywere he speaks of sitting, substitute kata for sitting. Now, bring that into your practice. Gene

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    I did not realize he had another book. I can't wait to check it out. Thanks, Gene.
    Jack Wilkinson

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    Default Not Always So !

    Thanks Gene ! Your timing is great as I am on my way to Barnes and Noble. I hope they have this book !
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

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