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Thread: Morihei Ueshiba and liver cancer

  1. #1
    bruceb Guest

    Default Morihei Ueshiba and liver cancer

    In 1968 Morihei (Ueshiba) was hospitalized and his condition was diagnosed as liver cancer. His health gradually declined, but he continued to train and teach as much as he could. Morihei needed assistance to get to and from the dojo, but once the master stepped on to the mat, he was still the invincible warrior.

    From the "Training with the Master : Lesson with Moriehei Ueshiba, Founder of Aikido " by John Stevens and Walther v. Krenner.

    I have met a couple of people who have died from cancer, and their efforts to continue to live their lives seem almost herculean.

    (On the back cover, in paraphrase ....)

    If the purpose of Aikido training is not to simply simply make you stronger or tougher than others: but to make you a warrior for peace, how can one be a warrior, one who fights or affects the outcome of a physical confrontation, without learning to be a healer too?

    Shouldn't the process be a mutual study of not just physical practice, but a study of medical healing of some sort?

    I am convinced that many of the practices in place need to be reviewed, not because they are wrong, but they are not properly practiced in manners that counter our physical practice to heal the body after a taxing workout? The strength of body is not always the strength of ones will power, which seems to be the real key to becoming an invincilble warrior.

    Should teachers begin to integrate a study of healing into Aikido to provide a balance of health benefits along with the physical practice? In relation to jumping into a physical workout without warming up, the same dangers of health seem to exist by mixing up some practice drills for aikido. Like most people who seem to do amazing feats, even the founder was flawed when it came to his own health.

    Have we come far enough along in our own studys, as the third generation of Aikido practitioners to begin to examine and add onto the foundation of Aikido laid out by the founder?

    (By the way, I opened this book at random, to this page with this quote, how strange.)

  2. #2
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    "If you what to learn to hurt someone, first you must learn to heal them." I think you have a point. Especially in an art like aikido. Aikido isn't about combat but more about personal growth.

    Some martial arts used to have bonesetting an such as requisites for blackbelt. I think aikido would benefit from students aiming for shodan having to produce some medical training. It could be anything from getting qualified in first aid to learn accupuncture. Anything that could help you understand the other end of what you techniques could do.
    Tony Manifold
    " Attack, attack, attack- come at your target from every possible direction and press until his defenses overload. Never give him time to recover his balance: never give him time to counter"
    Stover

    http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold

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    ???? Any class whether it is aikido or football should have warm up session. Unless you have medically sound practice, you don't get insurance.

    bruceb, are you saying there are aikido club somewher which doesn't do aikiundo in the beginning of the class?

    As of aikido mixed with healing practice, do Ki aikido. They have stuff like ki massage and so on.
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

  4. #4
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    Default about hurting.......and healing.

    now this is not my saying but I find it very eye opening...
    you should learn to hurt through your training, because then you learn a lesson about choice...if you learn to hurt in your Aikido only then can you make the choice not too.I find this very Aikido in thought. I dont mean pounding Uke, meaning learning the power of choice to promote Harmony....






    Douglas A. Davenport
    Sakura Dojo, Germany
    Douglas A. Davenport

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    "If you what to learn to hurt someone, first you must learn to heal them."

    Isnt that from the Shihan Segal and his movie hard to kill or did they take it from someone else. On a serius note though I agree with the statement in the sense that physical self defence is the last resort first I think you should attempt avoidance then verbal de escalation then tai sabaki then physical force. Budo must have the healing aspect in order for it to be complete my sensei always says karate and budo are about making you a better person

    yours in shugyo
    Ben Wallace

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    "If you what to learn to hurt someone, first you must learn to heal them."

    Isnt that from the Shihan Segal and his movie hard to kill or did they take it from someone else.
    You got me. It was from the movie with Kelly Lebrock. I don't remember the name, it was one of those three word titles though.
    Tony Manifold
    " Attack, attack, attack- come at your target from every possible direction and press until his defenses overload. Never give him time to recover his balance: never give him time to counter"
    Stover

    http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold

  7. #7
    MarkF Guest

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    "Bone setting" always seems to come up in discussion of different types of budo. Kodokan Judo has its Katsu (kuatsu) or Kappojutsu which is basic first aid _for that time_.

    Want to learn to heal? Take a first aid class, learn CPR, and everything in between such as learning to splint a possible broken arm or leg correctly.

    It may be nice to learn something in the alternative, eg, accupuncture (which is not first aid, and probably wouldn't be much good in setting a fracture), but first aid is almost always the first thing necessary in anything you do, thus, first.

    You can do both in tandem, or learn one, CPR/first aid, then aikido, judo, etc., or boxing and wrestling.

    Liver cancer is almost always fatal and there are few fixes out there. For sure, there are possibilities, but this is a different thing.

    Ueshiba M. was a pretty old man when he passed away, and yes, no matter how old, it is untimely especially when one is beloved family.


    Mark

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    If you what to learn to hurt someone, first you must learn to heal them."
    I once had the opportunity to see a Kito-ryu makimono. The first part of the scroll listed various healing methods which seemed to be different forms of kappo. Then, the first set of the kata were listed. When I asked my teacher (Tanemura Shoto) why the kappo came first on the scroll, he basically gave me the same answer as in the quote...
    John Lindsey

    Oderint, dum metuant-Let them hate, so long as they fear.

  9. #9
    bruceb Guest

    Default Liver concerns ....

    Obviously, there are particular organs the body can not live without, the liver is one of them.

    Upon considering the mysterious illnesses of Morehei Ueshiba, who sometimes is taken ill and retreats to his farm to get better, some of these retreats smack of liver disorders.

    Put into perspective ... I have seen a number of people who attempt to recreate some of the feats purported to be performed by Morehei Ueshiba go through some type of liver cleanse, or herbal chi allignment by a herbologist to reallign their body to normality.

    It would seem, the more one uses the tricks we call magical feats to hold one down, or to overwhelm the sensory array of the human body, seems to affect the health of the user.

    Obviously, the founder was not a young man, nor are many of us, who are over 40 either, but in the sum of all things, I was wondering if anyone else was paying attention to how the health of people practicing Aikido is affected, over the long term, verses those who attempt to reach the higher plane of practice that includes seemingly superhuman feats of strength, and faster than normal transitions for practice?

    I guess I was wondering what the overall cause of death is in people who practice the higher levels of aikido is?

    It certainly seems that the will of an individual can overcome pain and disease for a few moments of practice, but in reflection of diet, exercise, and health concerns, just what are the best all worlds for a long healthy life?

    It sure doesn't seem to be just exercise, but a blend of religion, lifestyle, and proper medical care ... both eastern and western medicine too besides physical exercise, doesn't it?

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    Default

    Not drinking copious amounts of sea water probably helps, too...

    RT

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    Default Healing Components?

    I, for one, would be interested to hear from people which of the arts in which they are experienced have an actual healing component. I know that a number of high level practitioners, Hatsumi sensei comes to mind, have body work backgrounds (chiropractic or shiatsu) but I am interested to find out which arts have an integrated healing system. I know Hakko Ryu does with its accupressure system. Anyone know of others? I am interested primarily in the Japanese arts.
    George S. Ledyard
    Aikido Eastside
    Defensive Tactics Options
    Bellevue, WA

  12. #12
    bruceb Guest

    Default Need it ...

    It would seem that these medical practices are more important than we give them credit.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but If there is a need to include health regimens with my aikido training, I sure am gonna find something that works.

    Mr. Ledyard has the right idea, at least, I think so.

  13. #13
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    Default Healing and aikido

    I think the number one cause of death for high level aikido practitioners tends to be old age! Our creator, Minoru Mochizuki, was an early student of Ueshiba and he demonstrated technique at camp in France two years ago, he just turned 96. Several of the old teachers discuss how ukemi is good for the internal organs and many other facets of aikido training are good for a variety of physical needs.

    I can attest to a very important part of the training being effective and that is stress management. When we are under stress, about 180 chemical changes happen within our bodies. An activity like aikido, with energy being expended, sweating, and movement that raises the heart rate, is very helpful in stress reduction. I have additional training in therapeutic movement and touch, as well as yoga training. These become very helpful to students and myself when muscles are sore or tight or joints are stiff and swollen.

    I think the best influence of aikido may be in knowing yourself. As internal awareness increases, usually the awareness of how to do good things for your body increases. Never, ever underestimate the importance of a strong sense of peacefulness and well being. I also agree that all instructors should be CPR trained and First Aid trained to insure the safety of students. If you dont know the signs of heat stroke, heat exhaustion, diabetic coma, and a few others, you are running a liability risk.

    Phil Farmer
    docphil

  14. #14
    shugyosha Guest

    Default ki and health

    It is indeed possible that the quickening of ki flow of ueshiba caused him his cancer.
    many peaple that quicken their ki sudently have desastrous affect on their health like gopi krishna, hastumi fell hill when he awake his kundalini (from the book "pathnote of an american ninja") but recover with time.
    Remember that ueshiba ki evolution was sudent and very fast, he describe himself his satori experiences wich show similarity with kundalini.
    Because ueshiba did not have advance Qigong healing knowledge at this time, or because of unaware of the consequences, he didnt try to control the quickening, wich damaged his body without his knowledge.

    now this is supposition, ueshiba himself stated that he got his cancer from the travel in mongolia.

    To compare with other master, in taijiquan for example, none of them is known to have contracted any cancer, however, many of them were sick and weak to the begening (sun lu tang, chen man qin...)
    but their progress has been slower and more carefully controled.

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    Koichi Tohei teaches something called Kiatsu. Similar to Shiatsu, but focuses on lines and not points. He extends Ki into spots along the lines. There is a recently republished book available called 'Kiatsu'.

    I am no longer affiliated with the Ki Society, but from what I understand a lot of Tohei's interest and time was being spent on this. (I left the Ki society over 15 years ago). He has a clinic where he teaches Kiatsu and offers a program of study with a certificate.

    I used to do more of it, and fixed the neck on a woman who had chronic pain for many years due to a car accident. (She didn't know or care about Ki, but only that she felt completely cured.) A friend had Tohei fix a pulled groin muscle, another friend of a friend had chronic sinus problems fixed.

    A word of advice - if you practice and get the hang of it, a line will form pretty quickly, and beware liability issues. It is very useful for the nagging dojo injuries.

    I am not sure how much emphasis Ki society dojos are putting on the subject, and I am sure it will vary by instructor, perhaps some Ki Society members could point you to a seminar if any are available.

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