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Thread: Humble origins?

  1. #46
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    Andreas,

    Is this the video called Motobu Ryu Bu Jutsu featuring Seikichi Uehara?

    Best Regards

    Chris Norman

  2. #47
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    Default re

    Is this the video called Motobu Ryu Bu Jutsu featuring Seikichi Uehara?
    Chris,

    the English text on it reads:
    Okinawa Bujutsu. Master Seikichi Uehara.
    It's a BAB Production (licensed for Nikko T. Press). 45 min.

    The main Japanese title reads:
    琉球王家秘伝本部御殿手
    Ryûkyû Ôke Hiden Motobu Odon-di
    (Ryûkyû Royal-Family Secret Motobu Palace Style)

    Do you know it?
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

  3. #48
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    Andreas,
    Yes I know of the video, I mentioned it to a colleague with whom I shared a Dojo and trained under for a while who teaches what he believes to be Uehara's version of Te. He tried rather unsuccessfully to get hold of a copy. Though he does have some original footage of a training session taken at the Bugeikan where his Sensei (who also trained under Uehara) trained under Seitoku Higa (So I suspect he might be doing the Bugeikan version).

    Quote:
    'The Moto-de shown looks like some kind of long Sanchin, done with both open and closed hands by different practitioners'.

    It is likely that this kata is Moto-te Sanchin (it should be a very soft version of a Sanchin Kata lacking the forceful breathing seen in some Naha based styles)its usually the first thing taught to beginners in Motobu Ryu. Its meant to help break some habits Karate practitioners have by getting them to stretch out more in preparation for the grappling aspects.

    Quote:
    'Kassen-te looked like a kata mainly made of Mae-geri, Nukite, Morote-nukite, Shutô-uke'.

    These sound like the basic striking techniques that are taught to beginners along with the foot patterns after Moto te Sanchin has been learnt.

    Were the hands kept in front of the body, with the rear fist held near the elbow of the leading arm in order to execute the strikes?
    and
    Was the footwork in the video low (Naha type) or Higher up (Shuri Type) with very springy footwork rising up on to balls of toes with the execution of techniques?

    Reason I ask is that people in Shihan Toma's organization in their version of Motobu Ryu Te/Ti/De/Di tend to uses the lower down Naha type stances, where as Mark Bishop, who trained with Uehara and Seitoku Higa shows much higher up Shuri type stances.

    This issue over footwork and stances is something that I have been trying to get to the bottom of quite some time now as each group says that their version is the correct one and that the other one is not correct.

    Also did the grip on the Bo have the index finger pointing along the length of the shaft and involve a Tenkan type leaping movement with the Bo being swept low?

    Did Seikichi Uehara himself demonstrate any techniques?

    Best Regards

    Chris Norman

  4. #49
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    Hi Chris,

    first of all in the beginning - when the video showed everybody training and doing something - one person did some kata moves looking like one of the Naifanchi and the corresponding bunkai I guess. It looked like very, very long matured work to me, but I am no expert.

    Were the hands kept in front of the body, with the rear fist held near the elbow of the leading arm in order to execute the strikes?
    In the Karate Bunkai the older guy who did the Kata moves put emphasis on this, with both palms facing upwards.
    I will check it the video if this also used in the Kassen-te.

    Was the footwork in the video low (Naha type) or Higher up (Shuri Type) with very springy footwork rising up on to balls of toes with the execution of techniques?
    The average posture was of comparatively high type, I mean, there were simply no deep stances! (High stances are high, low stances are real low)

    Also did the grip on the Bo have the index finger pointing along the length of the shaft and involve a Tenkan type leaping movement with the Bo being swept low?
    I saw the index finger stretched one time, but it was not like a special habit, at least not that I noticed it. The techniques shown against multiple attackers were mostly repeatet within one round of attackers. The Bo was used mostly to lever the attacker between the grip, the bo and the arm, so that he has to fall forward. And that was done to everybody in the "round." Maybe this was just an example, and indeed a good practice in terms of repetition with changing directions and changing maai.

    Did Seikichi Uehara himself demonstrate any techniques?
    Seikichi Uehara himself observed the trainings of the different categories. Within the technical part he showed Bôjutsu against multiple attackers. The ending part of the video is Seikichi Uehara doing 3 or 4 demonstration, showing defensens against multiple armed attackers. He defended mostly armed himself, but one "round" also unarmed. One technique was called "the whirlwind," meaning that the attackers are in a circle and attack one after another, and Uehara cared for everyone. As this involves changing directions and distance, the leaping type of body movement may stems from this kind of multiple attackers training.
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

  5. #50
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    Hi Andreas,
    Thanks for the detailed response.
    Definitely be interesting to know if the same hand position is used in the Kassen-te.

    As for the high stances that seems characteristic of the stuff that I have seen that has come from Uehara's Motobu Ryu.
    So looks like Shihan Toma's group have just incorporate the tuite from Motobu Ryu into their Naha based Kempo and not taken it on wholesale (Which is what I figured).

    The finger stretched on the Bo I mentioned may well be the Bugeikan version, seen photos of Seitoku Higa using this grip where its been labelled Motobu Ryu Te glaive versus spear.

    What was Uehara's unarmed technique?
    I mean was it obviously Karate or did it look like something else?

    Best Regards

    Chris Norman

  6. #51
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    Well, when in the 2nd century A.D. the "invasion of the barbarians" happened in Europe, there was a tribe which lost its way and finally -after some decades of traveling - reached Okinawa. That's the simple truth
    Josef Kreiner: Sources of Ryûkyûan History and Culture in European Collections, p. 19:

    "A letter from Andrade dated August 10, 1518. speaks of the islands od Lequeos, 200 leagues from China, where important gold mines are to be found and all merchant wares of China are stored. The people of this island country are said to be white like the Germans."
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

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