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Thread: Aikido & Daito-ryu: Differences and Similarities?/ Rengokai

  1. #1
    Brad Hoffner Guest

    Smile

    Here is a link I would like you guys to check out and see if you agree with it.

    Here it is: http://www.niagara.com/~zain/html/aikido.htm

  2. #2
    Sheridan Guest

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    Technically: I see big steps in aikijj all the time.
    Historicaly: Ueshiba-san had more then a limited number of Daito-ryu techniques. (IMHO.)

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    Mike,

    I'm not a martinet but somehow the term "Ueshiba-san" seems somewhat disrepectful. You may not consider him O-Sensei, but at the very least I feel he merits the appelation Ueshiba Sensei, even in informal conversation.

  4. #4
    Sheridan Guest

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    Gil:

    I've enjoyed your viewpoint and posts in many other threads and don't want to steal Mr. Hoffner's post with a flame war, so I'll keep this short and to the point.
    I meant NO disrespect. None whatsoever. However, from my point of view, Aikido is seperate from Daito-ryu. Daito-ryu is the precursor of Aikido and as such Morihei Ueshiba's teachings (hope I spelled that right.) have had no affect on my training. The best analogy that I can give is Bruce Lee. Most of the world consider him the best martial artist of the past century, (argueable, Sokaku and Ueshiba were alive for a chunk of this past century.) but if you study shoalin gung-fu, is Bruce Lee to be addressed as the chinese equivalent of sensei or O-sensei? Again, no disrespect is meant or intended here! I just see things a little differently from my side of the fence. I hope that clears up anything; if I've left something hanging or you're not satisfied with this post then send me a private message so that we don't turn Mr. Hoffner's thread into a petty pissing match.

    Regards:
    Mike


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    Below is a link to an excellent recent interview of Mr. Stanley Pranin of Aikido Journal by Mr. Jun Akiyama of AikiWeb.

    http://www.aikiweb.com/interviews/pranin0800.html

    In it, Mr. Pranin makes some intriguing points about the relationship between aikijujutsu and aikido.


    Robert Cronin

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    Nope, I do not agree with the ideas and statements presented on this website.

    Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions, and can say pretty much whatever they like on the internet. BUT, not everyone is in a position to comment intelligently, with sufficient expertise and understanding of the similarities and differences between aikido and Daito-ryu.

    There are fewer still who are entitled to teach Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. But that is the subject of another thread I think.

    I got a real kick out of this rather funny quote from the webpage in question:

    "When you practice a technique and your partner smiles,
    it is modern Aikido. If he screams, it is Daito ryu."

    Hmmm. Yeah, I guess that's a real good, sure fire way to tell the difference every time. LOL

    Brently Keen

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    Brently,
    I'm assuming you're referring to the first Web site given (the "niagara.com" one) and not the one just before your post, which is a rather pleasant in interesting interview between the delightful Jun Akiyama of Aikiweb, and historian/scholar Stanley Pranin?

    The juxtaposition took me aback for a moment.

    Cady
    Cady Goldfield

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    Cady,

    You are correct. I was referring to the website mentioned in the original original post, but my comment(s) were not intended to be specifically directed or restricted only towards them, but also in a more general sense. I guess I'm also referring in a round about way to the "What's yours to teach" thread. If the shoe fits folks, wear it.

    Just so there's no misunderstanding, I think Stanley's long time involvement in aikido as both a practitioner and especially as a historian and researcher certainly puts him among those qualified to comment.

    Although admittedly his relationship to Daito-ryu has been pretty much academic (he hasn't trained in Daito-ryu). We all, including the website mentioned above owe Stanley our thanks and gratitude for his efforts to tell the history of aikido and it's relationship to Daito-ryu in an objective manner. Much of what is known today about Daito-ryu is a result of Stanley's efforts to discover the influences on and the roots of aikido.

    Here's another example of babbling nonsense trying hard to sound wise and deep:

    "There is no clashing in philosophies. There are no
    contradictions. It is wasteful and foolish to look for
    them."

    Then immediately following that statement, the website features a comparision chart listing the all the so called differences of "Traditional Aiki" and "Modern Aiki" they could think of, complete with clashing philsophies and contradicting approaches!

    It's entertaining to say the least.

    Brently Keen










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    Hi lads,

    Just got back in town yesterday. I need a vacation to recoup from my vacation!

    Anyway,

    I've seen this web site (Daito ryu Aikibujutsu) several times. It is a nice looking site.

    However, in spite of the terminology and authoritative nature some of the articles are written in, there are several inaccuracies I noticed besides those sited by Mr. Keen. This is unfortunate, since sites with good design value and lingo like this tend to sway readers to believe everything written is fact.

    I can't comment on the ligitimacy or skill of this group, and there are some things worth reading on their site - but the reader would have to be able to discern what is correct and what is misleading or incorrect to benefit from it.

    I also noticed that they are hosting a seminar with Terada Sensei of Yoshinkan Aikido.

    Regards,

    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Default Statements from a seminar

    I recently attended an aikido seminar from a relatively high ranking western Aikidoka and was suprised by a few things I heard. He was discussing techniques and and length of time learning. He stated that Ueshiba had little time to learn techniques from Takeda. I would have thought that by now with all that has been written and researched that the history and length of time Ueshiba trained with Takeda would be more clearly evident and accepted. I am always surprised by how little of the history people know of their art.
    Jeff Brown

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    That "relatively high ranking western Aikidoka"... would be wrong. It's been pretty well documented by Stanley Pranin (a respected expert, and perhaps the most -- or only -- thorough researcher of Ueshiba and Takeda) that Ueshiba spent plenty of time studying with Takeda. Keep in mind that Takeda was more of an itinerate teacher than one with a home dojo. He offered many, many seminars and made regular rounds to various cities. A really dedicated student could get a lot of mat time this way. The emuroku doesn't lie.

    I suggest you get a copy of Pranin's Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu: Conversations With Daito-ryu Masters. You might want to forward it to that "relatively high ranking western Aikidoka."
    Cady Goldfield

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    I agree with Mr. Goldfield. Ueshiba sensei had a long and strong link with Takeda. The Master visited repeatedly Ueshiba's house as many people said and, obviously, the emuroku doesn't lie


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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus
    I recently attended an aikido seminar from a relatively high ranking western Aikidoka and was suprised by a few things I heard. He was discussing techniques and and length of time learning. He stated that Ueshiba had little time to learn techniques from Takeda.
    This is something that Kisshomaru spent most of his life repeating. Sometimes politics contradicts history.

    I would have thought that by now with all that has been written and researched that the history and length of time Ueshiba trained with Takeda would be more clearly evident and accepted.
    Yes, and after all the sacrifices of Stanley Pranin who has been given a rough ride by the powers that be in aikido.
    Don J. Modesto
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    ------------------------
    http://theaikidodojo.com/

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    And, those "powers that be" in aikido are also the ones who insisted that Daito-ryu is extinct.
    Cady Goldfield

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    Amen to that.

    But I think that the younger generations of Aikidoka are now aware of Aikido's relationship to Daito-ryu. And also just how much Daito-ryu Jujutsu (and Aikijujutsu) is actually incorporated into Aikido.

    Jose Garrido
    Jose' delCristo Garrido
    Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Mainline Tradition
    NYC Metro Area Branch Dojo
    facebook.com/daitoryudojonj

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