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Thread: Sitting down

  1. #1
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    Talking Sitting down

    Hi all,

    Is there a functional difference between getting into seiza by placing the knee down in front of the feet or setting the knee down next to your foot?

    Thanks!

    David Pan

    "What distinguishes budo from various sport activities is the quest for perfection."

    - Kenji Tokitsu

  2. #2
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    I assume you mean with regard to swordwork?

    There seems to me to be a tremendous variation nowadays.

    Quote "Without putting your hands down pull your foot back half a step and go down on the knee".

    But its not so much the knee going down as which knee. now it is generaly down on the left, step out and stand on the right.

    If you want to be truly traditional about it you should always go up and down on the foot that is opposite to Shinzen.

    The Ogasawara ryu has men moving the foot nearest kamiza, women the opposite.

    I think this post has perhaps made things more confusing rather than help but that's how it is. Best do as the manual or your sensei, or the shinsa-in want you to do it.

    Hyakutake Colin
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

  3. #3
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    In MJER, I've always seen left knee down first, and usually we go into seiza with feet together, bend down, left knee, then right. Think I've seen at least one instructor who steps the left foot back a little before going down.

    This strikes me as one of those things that different ryu do differently. For that matter, it sounds like one of those things that probably varies a bit within various dojo of a ryu.
    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

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    Default Step back or knee forward

    As has been mentioned, it is something of a style-thing. In ZNKR Seitei Iai, it is assumed that the exponent is permitted to flap his hakama legs aside to prevent them from tangling up his legs when he performs his kata. In much of the MSR Koryu, the exponent may do either of the aforementioned methods, the inner principle of stepping back and placing the knee down is that you rarely need to do any kind of hakama adjustment: stepping back clears the foot.

    It was stressed to me in Japan that the knee should take the place of where the ball of the foot is otherwise you will be moving back as you potentially sitting to face someone in conversation which would be very strange.

    On the basis that Omori-ryu Shoden was largely incluenced by cha-no-yu you might find the answer by looking in some books on the subject and seeing what the sadoka does when he sits while wearing traditional clothing.
    Andy Watson

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  5. #5
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    My chanoyu instructor teached me to sit with both legs (because you're wearing a kimono, not a hakama), and get up by lifting first the leg you plan to walk with (in chanoyu you cross the tatami mats with a certain leg, depending on the situation). I don't know if this is standard though.

    There's a somewhat complete article about seiza <a href="http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue6/Seiza.html">here at furyu.com</a>.
    --Leonardo Boiko

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    FWIW, in Mugairyu Iaihyodo, we don't move the foot back before sitting down. Left knee goes down in front of the left foot w/out moving the left foot. Use the free hand to hakamasabaki as the left knee goes down, then fold the right knee in to meet it.

    Regards,
    r e n

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    Sounds interesting about cha no yu. I used to practice Sohen Ryu. Again It could vary between ryu. The main reason I mention Sohen Ryu is because formerly tea was one of the disciplines taught to men. This is was style associated with the story of the forty seven ronin. Takumi noh Kami had used to take tea lessons with Kotsuke no Suke before he had quarreled with and killed him. The ronin knew he would be at home that particular night taking lessons with Yamada Sohen. That's how they had planned their attack. The ryu is a particularly masculine ryu so yet again we see slight variations.

    The main objective is to sit on the spot you have been standing on. Not so difficult when you can guage things with the lines of the tatami. The Ura Senke teacher sitting next to me says both men and women take a small half step back and drop to the knees.

    Hyakutake Colin
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

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