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Thread: Dirty judo.

  1. #1
    signaljammer Guest

    Default Dirty judo.

    It seems to be the general opinion of the CQC forum here that judo, specifically non sport "dirty judo". Is good for cqc and self defense. Or at least, is a good base.

    I suppose I'm more of a sporting judoka, as that is what my club is oriented for, especially at the higher levels.

    However, I personally am more interested in the self defense aspects.

    So this beggars the question, How do I dirty up my judo?

    Hopefully some of you judo guys can shed some light


    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    First practice Goshin Jutsu and Kime no Kata. They are the SD kata and will give you an Idea as to the Atemi in Judo. Next (or at the same time) look in to the Fairburn/Sykes Method. Bot Fairbairn and Sykes where early Blackbelts under Kano. They were Police officers in Shanghai and taught the allies in world war 2. Dirty Judo is often another way of refering to this method.

    Last if it is illegal in sport Judo, do it. Dirty judo at its most basic level is to cheat.

    Some resources.

    www.gutterfighting.org
    www.allinfighting.com
    My site
    Tony Manifold
    " Attack, attack, attack- come at your target from every possible direction and press until his defenses overload. Never give him time to recover his balance: never give him time to counter"
    Stover

    http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold

  3. #3
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    Way to big a topic to go in to with great detail but a few simple tips cant do to much harm .

    1. From any kind of grasp or hold applly boshi to any area.
    2. From seonage just leave opponent to verticly crash to the ground or if you preffer after launching him pull his arm in the revese direction of the launch.
    3. Start to explore all of the teqnicues at a new level ( the most painfull ) land opponents on your knee and such.
    4. Never be relectunt to strike at the groin or the throat.
    5. In uchimata the leg can come up to strike the genitals while providing more thrust for the throw.

    and many other such friendly things


    P.S.
    I am a bujinkan student.
    Keep to the way of the warrior

    Mc'pherson Lee

  4. #4
    Chinjab Guest

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    It amazes me how judo as an art suffers from collective amnesia regarding its original non-sport self-defense & close combat methods. I'm not even a Judoka and I know more about the old judo self-defense methods than most Judoka (including black belts) that I've met.

    Most of the best methods of military h2h combat, WWII and before (some shortly after) come from the old judo methods.

    Kawashima, author of JUDO: 41 LESSONS IN JUJUTSU, was an h2h instructor during WWI & WWII, and was the teacher of Bruce Tegner, Richard Hanely, and Irving Cahn. His book has a small section on combat/self-defense methods for military/police.

    As much as he is denigrated by the "martial arts" crowd, Bruce Tegner's self-defense material is better than 99% of the crap offered as "self defense" by martial artists now. Most of it is based in the old judo/jujitsu methods. I would especially reccomend the 70's edition of Tegner's COMPLETE BOOK OF SELF DEFENSE.

    Hanely and Cahn are legendary USMC Close Combat instructors. Hanely's COMBAT CONDITIONING and Cahn's COMMANDO JUJITSU are all basically the same moves found in Kawashima & Tegner.

    The later (and better) version of COMBAT CONDITIONING, now reprinted by Paladin Press is a good example of heavily Kawashima-influenced "Dirty Judo".

    W.E. Fairbairn and Dermot O'Neill were both kodokan blackbelts. Fairbairn's method is especially "combat judo" influenced - especially the farther back you go to his Shanghai Municipal Police manuals.

    E.A. Sykes was NOT a Judo blackbelt - at least not that we know about. He was primarily a firearms expert, who studied H2H under Fairbairn. That is NOT to say that he was not a H2H Expert and a tough SOB with a lot of experience. Very little is known about Sykes before during or after WWII.

    Another EXCELLENT resource that should be of interest to ALL Judo people is MODERN JUDO by Charles Yerkow. Vols 1 & 2 contain EXCELLENT methods of close combat and self-defense - ALL standard "combat judo" material of the time. This is a fairly complete judo manual, sport techniques, groundfighting, self-defense. This is really one of the best, most descriptive martial arts books I've seen, and largely unknown or ignored by judoka.

    Another wortwhile Judo-based book is John Martone's MANUAL OF SELF DEFENSE - dragnet-era police "dirty judo" - this is another A++ book largely neglected.

    They are all consistent in advocating edge of hand and heel of hand blows - blows concentrated to the head/neck area - eye gouges, fishooking, headbuts, knees, elbows - knees to the groin - low kicks directed at the knees/shins/feet - a few naked chokes - simple takedowns and simple locks.

    There are a LOT of other books related to this. Judo self-defense methods formed the basis for most combat methods of WWII - American, British, Japanese, Russian, and German. I have a WWII German manual of combat judo/jujitsu methods where the instructor and uke have patches on their gi's featuring a swastika inside the rising sun.

    They are all showing basically the same methods derived from the old Kano judo/jujitsu.

    The "goshinjitsu" kata now practiced in most judo dojos dates from the 1950's if I'm not mistaken. After Kano's death. You don't have to learn a long set of kata to learn combat judo methods. It is all simple direct and combative - 90% strikes & kicks.

    Judo people have a treasure trove of nuts & bolts methods in their history and don't even seem to know about it.

    I'm interested in the feedback on this.

    PS: the single best living resource I've found on this material is Carl Cestari & his closest students in NJ. Everything I know about this came from Carl and Ralph Grasso. They have invested years and a fortune in tracking down, researching, and training this material.
    Last edited by Chinjab; 15th June 2003 at 12:58.

  5. #5
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    Both Tony and James are correct, take the rule book and study it. If the book says you can't do it in competition, it is probably a good thing for "dirty judo"
    Other books for reference would be Kawaishi's Method of Self Defense
    (Ruthless Judo) and Self Defense Complete by Pat Butler. Both are hard to find (and you will probably have to pay for the rarity), but excellent judo based fighting. Another would be Techniques of Self Defense by Ching Nan Lee.

    Spend some time with most jiu jitsu(not brazillian)folks. The majority of techniques and throws come from old judo, mixed in with karate and boxing.
    Cris Anderson

    All my best ideas were stolen by the Ancients.

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