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Thread: BJJ vs. JJJ

  1. #196
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    Wow, this is quite the fascinating thread and interesting from a "historical" context as well. It is neat to look back and see what people were thinking years ago.

    The only thing I have to add that hasn't already been said is personal experience. I currently train in both Traditional Jujutsu (a derivative of Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu) and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu (specifically the Helio Gracie line with less emphasis on competition after becoming tired of the "thug mentality" I found at other variants of BJJ schools) and have found that the two ended up complimenting each other quite well. My arm bars amongst other things significantly improved training in TJJ and problems I faced going to the ground were easily solved with BJJ, even if it was something as simple as disengaging and standing back up.

    The metaphor I use is of a toolbox and both TJJ and BJJ are different tools in my toolbox for different kinds of problems.

  2. #197
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    Matt
    I think that is a fascinating combination and ripe with possibilities for both disciplines.

  3. #198
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    This is not a 100% viewpoint, because as always schools can very.

    But, BJJ seems to have put more emphasis on the sporting aspect of what the Gracies learned and taught. The GJJ has returned to more of it's roots and putting emphasis on self-defense and excluding many popular tournament techniques that aren't good for "the street".

    If you can find a copy of Royce Gracies' book, or Rorion's videos on self-defense, you will see that there isn't any difference between that and the TJJ/JJJ for the stand up techniques (locks/throws/takedowns etc) for common grabs/pushes/tackles and other attacks.
    "Hard won, buy easy lost. True karate does not stay where it is not being used."

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin73 View Post

    If you can find a copy of Royce Gracies' book, or Rorion's videos on self-defense, you will see that there isn't any difference between that and the TJJ/JJJ for the stand up techniques (locks/throws/takedowns etc) for common grabs/pushes/tackles and other attacks.
    First I mean no disrespect to any material art they all have pros and cons. I agree Kevin bjj is more sporty now than ever its what taekwondo turned in to what once was a martial art is now a sport judo as well. Which leads me to the self defence videos they are essentially judo with modified atemi all standing locks/ chokes in judo are illegal now and hence not taught Similar to many arts unfortunate but all to common. as far as im concerned bjj is the worst street fighting art out there in one on one its is amazing in 2 on one semi viable 3 or more attackers useless grappling one person while getting kicked by another sucks or grappling some one with a knife horrible granted i do ground sparring because often times fights lead there

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evisceration View Post
    First I mean no disrespect to any material art they all have pros and cons. I agree Kevin bjj is more sporty now than ever its what taekwondo turned in to what once was a martial art is now a sport judo as well. Which leads me to the self defence videos they are essentially judo with modified atemi all standing locks/ chokes in judo are illegal now and hence not taught Similar to many arts unfortunate but all to common. as far as im concerned bjj is the worst street fighting art out there in one on one its is amazing in 2 on one semi viable 3 or more attackers useless grappling one person while getting kicked by another sucks or grappling some one with a knife horrible granted i do ground sparring because often times fights lead there
    A situation with one on three, your will probably end on the ground anyway. So a good bjj base will probably do you good.
    Last edited by Stefffen; 26th February 2014 at 13:19. Reason: Spelling...
    Steffen Gjerding
    Kakudokan dojo

    Yup, lousy english

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  7. #201
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    Your right they do go to ground most of the time you trip lose balance get tackled ect but the first and last time I stayed on the ground I got hit in the back of the head and was knocked out my only saving grace was I apparently gave the one guy a concussion a broken nose and a shatered cheek bone so they took him to the hospital instead of beating me senseless that was me in full mount for maybe 5 seconds bjj is good to know but not as your base an amazing supplement to any striking art I personally prefer judo though because you can stand or go to ground

  8. #202
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    Default why BJJ not TJJ?

    "How is it that JJJ is seen as being less than effective compared to its Brazilian offshoot? "

    marketing .......

    and training in a less culturally uncomfortable atmosphere that suits the narcissism of the times.

    BJJ is judo newaza 24/7/365, Basically Japanese Judo. but joe six pack thinks it's not "ornamental" so he's not suspicious.

    read THE best history of BJJ in an Aikido book of all places. Aikido in Japan and The Way Less Traveled. friend gave it to me. talks all about this issue.

  9. #203
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    This is just a little footnote on the usage of the words jiu-jitsu and jujutsu. In this thread and elsewhere on this forum I've come to use "jujutsu" when referring to the Japanese art and "jiu-jitsu" when referring to the Brazilian art.

    The following are a series of graphs generated by Google's Ngram Viewer (https://books.google.com/ngrams). This tool allows one to graph the instances of a word's usage in known publications over a period of time.

    The first image is an example showing the percentage of times the three words "judo", "martial arts" and "kung fu" show up in English language sources from 1900 - 2000.

    The reason I don't do pre-1900 is because the prevalence of the word "judo" prior to 1900 with the complete non-existence of the terms "martial arts" or "kung fu" skews the graph to the point of unreadability. However, note the slight increase in the usage of "judo" from 1910-1920 followed by explosive growth around 1930.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The second graph shows the usage of the terms judo, jujutsu, jiujitsu and jiu-jitsu during the same time period. You'll note that the spelling "jiu-jitsu" was in fact in much higher usage than the other three terms from 1900-1910 and then we can see the term judo take off during 1930-1940.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It was around 1900-1910 that judo came to Brazil. Romanization of Japanese words had not been standardized (no modified Hepburn or Kunrei-shiki for us yet. Nihon-shiki technically existed at this point though not in Brazil) so the art that was to become known as Kodokan Judo was still being presented using some variant of the phonetic transcription "jiu-jitsu." (You can even find the variant "jui-jitsu" in the 1915 Shanghai Police Self-Defense manual.)

    It appears that at the time the term jiu-jitsu was a more common method of phonetically writing 柔術... which is why I suspect we have Brazilian Jiu-jitsu today and not Brazilian Judo. We were still at least two decades away from formal permanence of the term "judo" in English (and apparently in Brazilian) publication.

    It is a bit like using the word "Brazil" to refer to the country when it's actually written "Brasil" in Portuguese. Everyone mangles words when bringing it into their local language. How about コンピュータ、トラック、or コーヒー anyone?

    So whereas one can accurately claim that Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is really Brazilian Judo it's a bit of a retroactive linguistic historical rewrite to make that claim as the term judo really wasn't being used in the West at that point in written works. The name is a reflection of the historical time period during which it was transmitted to a new group of people.

  10. #204
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    Great insights in this thread... i think that BJJ is just the natural evolution of the art as a fighting style... for instance, what Eddie Bravo is doing with no-gi BJJ is just incredible...at the end of the day, its just improvements by practitioners over time
    An American business with a global vision, we're bringing back 'built in America'

  11. #205
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    I'd agree with Clayton - I have taken to referring to it as Basically Just Jujitsu - It really is much more akin to Pre-WWII Judo in its breadth and scope, just with the emphasis on tachiwaza vs. newaza reversed. Judo was even going in the same newaza-heavy direction.

    Today BJJ is changing still: it's no longer Brazilian, really, as Americans such as Eddie Bravo mentioned above are inspiring major developments and changing in their particular expression ( in his "10th Planet Ryu").

    There is a growing push toward a more practical self defense focus in other groups, and Rickson's explorations and sharing of his Invisi-Jits (my word, not his ) will push development in still other fruitful directions.
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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  13. #206
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    i love both.

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