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Thread: Nunchaku Kata

  1. #1
    RobertW Guest

    Default Nunchaku Kata

    We practice maezato no nunchaku in our system.
    Aie there more ryukyu kobudo nunchaku katas? I know therer are alot forms for nunchaku, some form okinawa kobudo or shorin ryu kobudo, I'm wondering from ryukyus kobudo...

  2. #2
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    Default

    Robert,

    There sure are other kata. Anyway the rest of your question kinda confused me. When you mention Ryukyu, Okinawa and Shorin are you refering to the geographic sites? Or particular schools or organizations? In case it is a matter of geography wouldn't all of the above be from Ryu Kyu anyway?

    cheers,
    Sidarta de Lucca

  3. #3
    RobertW Guest

    Default

    What I amgetting at I suppose is it seems to me that Rykyu Kobudo would technically take up all of the forms from the ryukyu archipelago, although some call their systems shorin ryu okinawa etc. I guess I am getting at from the system of that name (ryukyu kobudo) more than anything...

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    Default re

    @Robert -

    on the Website of Ryukyu Kobudo Hozon Shinkokai there are mentioned three Nunchaku Kata:

    o Maezato no Nunchaku 前里のヌンチャク
    o Akamine no Nunchaku 赤嶺のヌンチャク
    o Sanbon Nunchaku 三本ヌンチャク

    As far as I have heard, Sanbon Nunchaku is done with Sansetsukon 三節棍. The Maezato and Sanbon Kata seems to have been developed by Taira, Akamine no Nunchaku seems to have been traditioned by Akamine Eisuke, the late Nidai Kaich (second president) of the RKHS.

    Apart from the RKHS, I have heard that several styles call their Kobudo "Ryukyu Kobudo," for example Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, but I am not sure.

    Maybe this is due to their systems roots leading back to times of Ryukyu Kingdom, which was abolished in 1879 or so. All Kobudo implements with old Kata - Bo (and Eiku), Tunfa and Sai - can be traced back to Ryukyu Kingdom times. Other Kobudo implements like nunchaku, timbei or surujin, were only developed in terms of Kata in Okinawa-ken times (as far as I know).

    As Okinawans themselves differenciate between certain geographic locations within Ryukyu island chain, this seems to be more a historio-cultural usage of the word (rather than geographical).
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

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    Default re

    I forgot:

    apart from that, it is necessary to make clear what kind of Kobudo is meant in comparison to Nihon Kobudo.
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

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    There is a nunchaku kata demonstrated in the Sakagami Ryusho book "Nunchaku and Sai." Is anyone familiar with this kata, and it's name? If I recall from my notes, he only mentions that he learned it from Taira Shinken.

    How a Tang Soo Do guy like myself was taught this form and started practicing it... who knows?
    - Tom Marker

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    Default re

    I have copies of a Ryusho Sakagami book called "Ryukyu Kobudo ... Basic exercises...," I don't have them here. But he doesn't give a name, just calls it "basic exercises." Inoue Motokatsu in "Ryukyu Kobudo Chukan" (1974) calls it Nunchaku Rensh Kata... Seems like it is Maezato no Nunchaku !?!?!?
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

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    Default

    If it would help, i can try to scan the first couple movements from the book.

    I learned it from an Isshin-ryu practicioner who simply called it "Sakagami." Not a standard Isshin-ryu form, I thought it was odd, until I met another isshin-ryu person who did the same form and called it the same thing.

    I just want to make sure I give credit where credit is due
    - Tom Marker

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    Default re

    i can try to scan the first couple movements from the book.
    That would be a good idea.

    Shito Ryu Itosu-ha Kobudo curriculum seems to call the kata "Sakagami no nunchaku" 1 and 2 (sho and dai). I think I remember, that Sakagami stated, that there was no name for the kata... So the name must given posthumous.
    Also, Inoue has the nunchaku renshu kata 1 and 2 (sho and dai) in his books.

    Both Sakagami and Inoue were Ryukyu Kobudo students of Taira.

    Maybe a scan will help.
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

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    I was told the 1 in his Sai , & Nunchaku book looks to be a combonation of Maezato , & Akamine no Nunchaku .

    David

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    Default

    Thanks for the info, and I apologize for slightly hijacking the thread. I'll see if I can post a few images this weekend. The book's pictures are in a funky style, not the traditional table of images.
    - Tom Marker

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    http://wackett.enc.org/~tmarker/1.jpg
    http://wackett.enc.org/~tmarker/2.jpg

    as i said, the book isn't set up well for scanning individual techniques...
    - Tom Marker

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    Default re

    Quote from:

    Sakagami Ryusho: Ancient Martial Arts of the Ryky Islands. Series 1. He Basic Formal Exercise of Nunchaku, Tokaido Co. Ltd., Tokyo 1969 or 1970 (1st edition).

    "Up to the present, Nunchaku has no formal exercise, but here I have arranged the basic formal exercise in Nunchaku techniques from basic movements handed down from our teacher, Shinken Taira."
    Also in the above quoted book the movements are a little bit different than in the scans, this would mean that the formal exercises in both his Nunchaku books are not Maezato no Nunchaku or Akamine no Nunchaku, also they maybe look similar.

    (I can't remember the moves of Maezato no Nunchaku, that's why I can't say for sure: Nunchaku are "forbidden objects" [not weapons] in Germany. When I asked the federal police office they told me, that there is no chance to legally buy, produce, possess ... Nunchaku in Germany in any case... and most recently the corresponding laws were even strengthened.)

    Taira is said to have put together the basic techniques of Nunchaku, Surujin, Tekko and Tinbe (Rochin) to formal Kata. Those basics he learned from Kanegawa no Gibu, his alleged grandfather. When Taira constructed the Kata is not for sure.

    It would be best to look for Shito-ryu Itosukai practitioners, and check how their Nunchaku kata are called and if these two are the ones which are (sometimes?) called Sakagami no Nunchaku 1 and 2.

    I wonder why Inoue did call his Nunchaku Kata "Nunchaku Rensh Kata 1 and 2", because his 3 volume edition "Ryky Kobud" is from 1974 and was produced under supervision not only of the mainland S-honbu of Inoue, but also of the S-honbu in Okinawa.

    As Taira died in 1970, this is raising the question, if the name Maezato no Nunchaku was given posthumous or if others - just like Sakagami -

    "arranged the basic formal exercise in Nunchaku techniques from basic movements handed down from [...] Shinken Taira"?
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

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    Post Nanchaku

    Most of the 'chaku kata I have seen from the Matayoshi, Akamine, & Taira Clan seemed slow and plodding. I haven't seen very many that do 'chaku well, although I am sure there are. IMO think it is one of the most difficult weapons to learn proficiently. On the other hand, I have seen(and do) Matsumura nanchaku done many times and it is a different animal all together. The most impressive displays of 'chaku kata I have ever seen and witnessed to came from Kyoshi Roy Osborne of Okinawa Seito Shorinji-ryu. He learned kobudo from Hohan Soken O'Sensei, Fusei Kise Sensei, and others. But the kobudo he learned from SokenSama is scarey.
    I have some video of him doing double 'chaku kata, blindfolded, that I will ask him if it is ok to post. It is eyecatching to say the least. For those of you seeking to study 'chaku, be patient. It takes many, many years to obtain skill. Anybody can spin them around and make it "look" good. One thing you will not find, and that is, a lot of kata for this weapon. Other weapons yes, not 'chaku so much.
    Hank Irwin
    www.geocities.com/bushinoji
    A.O.A.
    Academy of Okinawan Arts

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    Default re

    I have some video of him doing double 'chaku kata, blindfolded, that I will ask him if it is ok to post.
    That would be good!!!
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

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