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Thread: Meik's comments on solo waza training from Jo Forum

  1. #121
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    Since you have threatened to end your crusade in this thread I’m gonna say something that hasn’t really been said yet. Some have tried, but have yet to actually say it.
    Have you even contacted Meik to talk to him about how your feelings were hurt over his statements?
    I have yet to hear you say that you spoke to him personally or via e-mail regarding this subject. Because of that, it makes it look like you are trying to rally support against someone who said something that you didn’t like. KIDS and high school chicks do that kind of thing!
    If you are so offended with what was said. You need to address Meik personally instead of trying to rally the support of others in a public forum!
    If I were you and felt so strongly and offended about what was said. I would have my !!! on a plane so fast to take care of whatever it was that made me feel that way. I would not try to rally people to start some overthrow of the guys reputation.

    In my dojo my students have three choices if they don’t like what I have to say. One is they can ask me in private why I think this or that. Two, they can pick up there sword or bokkuto and ask me why. Or three, they can hit road!
    In either case, they know to come to the source and not the rest of the dojo to find out why!!

    You stated in a previous post that “Do people not even read what I write?”
    No, they don’t. Why, because it’s the same my old song and dance crusade!

    Nathan thanks for mentioning me in the same thread as Mr. Skoss and Bodiford. Two people that I have much respect for and don’t even personally know.




    BIG TONY
    SENPOKAN DOJO
    BIG TONY

    Senpokan Dojo
    Tozai Imports

  2. #122
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    Originally posted by Kusarigama
    I think you are incorrect Charles. We all get it.

    What we “get” is the phrase you keep using over and over. And that phrase is more or less as follows:

    “I’M OFFENDED” !!

    With all due respect Brit (mind you I don't know you from Adam but I am giving it to you anyways so much for having to earn it.. eh?.. think on that one) I think you seem to have missed his point.

    I am too lazy to go back and search the entire thread to see if indeed Charles did say "I"M OFFENDED". But at the risk of dragging this out even further, the message I got from Charles is that he believes Meik's choice of words was "OFFENSIVE", and that he does not believe that is an acceptable way for a highly esteemed figure such as Mr. Skoss to make his views know in the budo community.

    I did not read anything close to what you apparently have read into the thread.


    Originally posted by Kusarigama

    Whenever you disagree with someone or dislike how, when, what, and where someone says something, out comes your stock phrase.

    “I’M OFFENDED” !!

    So Meik says something, IN HIS OPINION, that you disagree with.

    “I’M OFFENDED” !!

    Someone doesn’t agree with you that MJER is a Koryu.

    “I’M OFFENDED” !!

    Or says it in a style/manner/verbiage you don’t like.

    “I’M OFFENDED” !!

    The list goes on and on.
    Again, I am too lazy to go through every post Charles has made, but judging by your above statements you must have. So please entertain me and provide some quotes that illustrate the above scenarios you have presented.


    Originally posted by Kusarigama

    Why do you care what anyone else thinks?

    I think Charles has made it pretty clear that he does not care what "anybdy else thinks". What he does seem to care about is:

    1- the impact the opinion of somebody like Meik has on the beginning student or on the interested student.

    2- The effect that stating a negative opinion has on the community when it is presented with less than tasteful language.


    Originally posted by Kusarigama

    What I see here is an absolute demand on your part that everyone respect you and your opinions.
    Again I disagree. What I see here is a plea that all of us, senior budoka included, be a little more respectful in our choice of language when talking about another style. It is something I happen to agree with even though I personally did not find Meik's wording offensive, I did find it provocative and that may be just what he was trying to do...provoke... If that is the case he certainly was sucsesful.

    Originally posted by Kusarigama
    Newsflash: Respect is earned. It is not a right.
    Please re-read Charles's posts. It at no point is really about respect, it is about respectful behavior. Ttue respect is something that is earned. Respectful behavior on the other hand should be extended towards everyone.

    Originally posted by Kusarigama
    If you want respect for your opinions then show respect for the opinion of others. If you disagree, state your opinion respectfully and “MOVE ON”. But you can’t, can you? You beat the bloody thing to death.

    Big Tony calls you “Crusader”.

    “Zealot” is more accurate.
    Well Brit it seems that you actually found the center of this afterall (So tell us. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?)

    The first sentence of your last paragraph sums up what this has really been all about. And unless I am mistaken it is all Charles was really trying to get at.

    The Zealot thing...well take your own advice is my advice.

    Respectfully,
    Scott Irey
    Just another one of those "few peanuts short of a snickers bar" MJER guys.

  3. #123
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    Actually I always take my own advice.

    I don't feel obligated to supply empirical data to justify my opinion. It is, after all, only my opinion.

    Nor do I get pulled into argument and counter-argument.

    I stated my opinion. Firmly but hardly with disrespect.

    And again, "taking my own advice", I move on.
    Britt Nichols
    Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo® USA Shibu

    AiTe wa Baka Ja Nai

  4. #124
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    1 You're a better man than me.

    2 Opinion? It looked like a statement of fact, but I will take your word on it.

    3 I can hardly blame you for that...wise choice I'd say.

    4 That is a matter of opinion I suppose.

    5 I admire the drive-by attitude, but it hardly offers much oppurtunity for friendly arguement.

    Respectfully,
    Scott Irey
    Just another one of those "few peanuts short of a snickers bar" MJER guys.

  5. #125
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    Folks

    May be kinda off topic question here. Or we might be done with the topic.

    But, as i recall many systems of Koryu have at there base a story of the founder (ok a very well trained and experienced founder) retreating to a mountian/going into suclusion/ etc then developing his "style" as it were.

    The founder of the Jo style that set off this thread for example.

    What were they doing all that time?--its not like they had a practice partner to develop the techs against.
    Were they not doing "solo practice" or "solo training" at this point?

    Did they then develop a two person set around what they had concieved alone?

    Sorry if someone already asked/answered this.

  6. #126
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    Sorry

    Forgot to sign the above

    Chris Thomas

  7. #127
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    Charles Mahan:

    Thank you for your clarification. You are right. I did not understand your initial post. I had thought that you objected to what Meik Skoss said. Now, I see that you merely objected to the playful language he used to reinforce what he said.

    I still cannot understand what you are complaining about. Saying the same thing twice, the second time in more colorful and memorable language in and of itself does not transform an non-offensive statement into one that is insulting or disparaging. It is, rather, skillful use of words to convey one's point.

    After reading the longer excerpt you posted, I still find nothing offensive or insulting in Skoss's writing. Certainly, practitioners of iai (just like practitioners of kendo, kenjutsu, etc.) play with swords. Likewise, the do it alone. Therefore, they quite literally are "playing with themselves." The fact that "playing with oneself" also can function as a euphemism for masturbation simply draws the reader's attention to a parallel situation (one familiar to most readers) in which there exists an obvious difference between performance with a living partner versus performance with an imaginary one. It is an apt analogy for conveying Skoss's view.

    If you object to the implied analogy, then argue that it is false or misleading.

    If you object that the implied analogy itself is insulting or derogatory, then you object too much. For it to be insulting, you must also argue that masturbation is bad and, therefore, any implied comparison of iai and masturbation implies that iai is bad. Is that the case? If that is the case, then I disagree. No doubt there are many other people who believe that masturbation is good. At the very least it is a topic about which people will disagree. I fail to see how the analogy in and of itself can imply either insult or praise.

    If that is the case, then your objection could be appeased only if all playful language (analogies, wit, wordplay, metaphor, tongue-in-cheek expressions, etc.) was censored whenever any reader might possibly associate it with something that the reader regards as less than praiseworthy. Where would you draw the line? Who would be in charge of drawing that line? Obviously, some people would draw it very differently than others.

    Without clever wordplay (even if it risks appearing crude to some readers) our language would become dull, impoverished, and lifeless. I, for one, certainly hope that the moderators at e-Budo.com, at newspapers, or at other public forums never succumb to your editorial preferences.
    William Bodiford
    Professor
    Dept. of Asian Languages & Cultures
    UCLA

  8. #128
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    Mr. Bodiford,

    That has got to be one of the best posts I've ever read on an internet forum. Thanks, it was a real pleasure to read.
    Chuck Clark
    Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
    http://www.jiyushinkai.org

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