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Thread: Gaijin - A derogetory term?

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  1. #1
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    Default Gaijin - A derogetory term?

    The word gajin popped up in the other forum and someone said,

    "From what I understand, Gaijin is not regarded as polite. I could be wrong."

    So I added this comment.

    "Well, there is a word called gaikokujin=people of outside countries. Then there is a shortened word gaijin = people of outside. In japanese, shortened words dont really means insult like Jap=Japanese but people with English background start to take offence to the use of gaijin decades ago. Initially, most Japanese thought WTF but quite few nowaday goes along with that sensitivity. Personally, I think it's silly."

    Nowaday, foreigners of non-English background seems to have taken the cause by making an issue out of this lingo as well. To make this matter absurd, some Japanese start to use gaijin or jingai as an derogatory word purly because they realised that it cause offence. It is one of the rare case where minoirty actively created derogatory word for themselves.

    Given the origin of offense being English linguistic, it it rather extremly silly in my view. I can understand the idea of being sensitive to other people's feeling but I don't insist on Japanese sensitivity here in U.K.
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

  2. #2
    Kimpatsu Guest

    Default Re: Gaijin - A derogetory term?

    "Gaijin" IS a deregatory term. It's applied in the same way as the N word in English. Use "gaikokujin" to be polite.
    And that way, I won't call you a Nip...

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    That is the problem. No Japanese consider shortened word as a offensive use of racial description.

    English lingustic rule don't apply in Japanese. I think it's more than 20 years from now for me but I aske a guy whenther he find gaijin offensive. He said "yes" and I asked "why?" and he just said "because". So I felt "???". I just went along with his sensitivity but now with all those debate about PC going crazy, I think this is one of those thing.

    Why a word which is not politically correct usage in English grammer have to be offensive in Japanese? As I said, it is silly or rather absurd in my view.
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

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    Originally posted by Vapour
    That is the problem. No Japanese consider shortened word as a offensive use of racial description.

    English lingustic rule don't apply in Japanese. I think it's more than 20 years from now for me but I aske a guy whenther he find gaijin offensive. He said "yes" and I asked "why?" and he just said "because". So I felt "???". I just went along with his sensitivity but now with all those debate about PC going crazy, I think this is one of those thing.

    Why a word which is not politically correct usage in English grammer have to be offensive in Japanese? As I said, it is silly or rather absurd in my view.
    Youji,

    It's not the word, or the grammer related to how that word is formed. It's the stigma attached to the word.

    You could quite legitimately say that as 'Negro' (sorry to actually type it, but i'm using it as an example, please don't take offense anyone) is just the Latin word for black, and has no negative meaning. However, due to the way in which it was used in the past, it now has a stigma attached to it .... much more is implied when you say that word than what the word itself originally represents.

    Gaijin is exactly the same.
    Huw Larsen

    Number 1 member of the Default Collective of Misfits

  5. #5
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    Yoji, if it's not a stigma, how come there are places in Japan with "No Gaijin" signs?

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    When I was in Japan, about the only bad experience I had was the school kids on class trips running behind myself and another black man (with dreads) yelling 'coco-jin, coco-jin'. I don't know Youji, would *you* find that offensive?

    I remember how my caucasian friends felt in Kenya when the kids would run behind *them* in the country-side yelling 'zungu, zungu' (short for m'zungu, a swahili word for white person [zunguka-zunguka -- means to run around like a crazy person]).

    Now, one thing is, why would you let something kids say bother you? Interestingly, it did bother the whites in Kenya...and I didn't like it so much in Japan.

    Ron

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    Most Japanese decades ago had to ask foreingers (read Westerners in this case) whether the word is offensive or not. And when asked why, I don't think any of them could give any satisfactory answer.

    Because it was to do with English usage of shortened word and if that is being revealed, both parties would immediately realised that there is no issue in the word gaijin which is Japanese. Japanese almost always shorten formal kanji words in oral conversation. Otherwise, how do you explain the word Gaijin-san. Gaikokujin is used for written expression and sounds and feel unnatural in conversation.

    And if you don't like to be called foreinger in Japanese because stigma attached to being foreigers in Japan, well....what does it make difference by insisting to be called in written expression of the word foreinger instead of verbal expression of foreinger which was what it was. Me insisting to be called Japanese instead of Jap makes sence in English. Doing exactly same thing in Japanese make no sence unless you refer back to the implication in English.

    If I want to insult foreinger in Japanese, I would use words like Keto (white) or shinajin (Chinese). If I want to racially insult someone, using the word "gajin" sound extremly silly and strange.

    I just find it extremly silly that I have to make mental effort to use written expression of "foreigner" in oral conversation just because someone had to make issue out of it because his mother tongue was English. Argument that "the sensitivity of other is what mater" can go only so far when the cause of such sensitivity is that silly. It just so happened because one side didn't understand English well and the other side didn't understand Japanese well.
    Last edited by Vapour; 14th October 2003 at 16:07.
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

  8. #8
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    You haven't answered my question, Yoji: If it's nto a slur, how come the Jim Crow signs?

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    I don't know what co-co jin is in Japanese. What co-co refers to in Japanese.

    In insular country where people rarely seen foreinger (white, black or oriental), kids will shout that way. If I go to place where they never seen oriental, I'm quite sure that kids will shoult "Chinese! Chinese!'. Even now, I've seen few kids in U.K. who do Kung Fu move in front of me because they think I'm Chinese. I certainly feel qutie embarrased and if the reaction is over the top, I won't like it. But If I take issue with the word "Chinese", it would be extremly silly. I'm quite sure if you go to place like Papua New Guinea's highland, kids would shout in ther local language "White man! White man! Look he is real!" which is pretty much what it was 30 years ago in Japan especially in rural area.

    "No gaijin" = "No foreinger". Sure it is offensive sign but not because of the linguistic use of the word "foreninger" but because of the fact that they don't let you enter it if you are foreingers. Would it be o.k. if it said "No gaikokujin allowed".

    The key point is that real offense is the context in which that word was used in particular occasion be it be white man, Chinese or gaijin. It is extremly silly to take offense to the general meaning of the word which is not at all offeisive. Only because Japanese often use shortened expression of kanji in oral conversation, it got mixed up with sensitivity of English linguistic usage.
    Last edited by Vapour; 14th October 2003 at 16:26.
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

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    Would it be o.k. if it said "No gaikokujin allowed".
    Good point...

    Coco-jin is rather obvious, I would think...

    Ron

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    Originally posted by Ron Tisdale
    Good point...

    Coco-jin is rather obvious, I would think...

    Ron
    ahhh, cocoa? I'm not taking piss. I honestly don't know.
    Last edited by Vapour; 14th October 2003 at 16:32.
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

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    I think people are still very racist to oriental races in the UK.

    It's seen bad as insulting Blacks and Asians, but they think it's funny to go "Ah So!" towards Orientals and pretending to talk in an asian Language.

    Japan is also very racist though, but that's because they are not as multi cultured as other western countries.

    Racism is just the way societies work when they are not exposed to different looking people, it's the same as when you see a person in a wheel chair and you feel the need to stare.

    Hokkiaido was funny, my bright red haired friend made about 14 little kids cry when they saw her through her trip!

    Cheers
    Rev. Matt Boxall AKA Dr. Stupid

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    .
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

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    Originally posted by Vapour
    ahhh, cocoa? I'm not taking piss. I honestly don't know.
    just don't search for it on the net, you may come up with some sites that will get you in trouble....
    Rev. Matt Boxall AKA Dr. Stupid

    *Puts on wizard hat and robe*

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    Originally posted by monkeyboy_ssj
    just don't search for it on the net, you may come up with some sites that will get you in trouble....
    Huh?
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

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