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Thread: Gaijin - A derogetory term?

  1. #76
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    Originally posted by Soulend
    History shows me that there is just as much hatred, cruelty and racism worldwide as there ever was...
    Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
    I think you have a cynical and distorted view of history. But maybe I'm just a myopic optimist.

    Originally posted by Soulend
    ...is it my view of history which is cynical, or my view of current events? By this remark, I take it that it is your position that there was little cruelty, racism, or hatred in history?
    Of course not. I mean that if you think things were the same in history as they are now you have a distorted view of history.

    Your facetious response to my ambiguous wording doesn't become you.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  2. #77
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    Default Oh yes, we have come so far...

    Yes, nevermind. My experiences of Bosnia-Hertzagovina, Somalia, and Kuwait after Saddam was flung out were simply illusions. They were all only funnin', just like the Hutu. My response wasn't facetious at all, I didn't understand what you were saying, but what does and does not 'become me' isn't the point now is it, Mr. Owens?

    http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-CHN

    http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-file...ierenglish.pdf
    http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0...0?OpenDocument

    http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-alb/index

    http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-BOL

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in519506.shtml

    http://www.bootsnall.com/travelogues/wctan/52.shtml

    http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide.htm

    http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/holocaust.html

    In every continent on the globe, the most egregious human rights abuses, murder, barbarism, torture, and racism are occuring daily. I could link a hundred other examples but won't bother. Surf Amnesty International and just look how we human beings are so much kinder and gentler now.
    Last edited by Soulend; 15th October 2003 at 06:50.
    David F. Craik

  3. #78
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    Originally posted by Soulend
    Tony, have you been into Bruce's medication or something?
    Well, you did say I was a crazy optimist. Seriously, though, paradaigm shifts in global thinking are possible; 300 years ago, slavery was taken for granted. 200 years ago, the Divine Right of Kings was considered obvious. These ideas have given way to more enlightened ones. So why can't we evolve more as a species?
    Originally posted by Soulend
    Apartheid was evil, but to say the country is "not perfect" has got to be the understatement of the decade. The place is a damn nightmare. Murder, rape, and robbery are RAMPANT, the government is absolutely rife with corruption, and their economy has gone to hell. They will be Rwanda in five years. Plus they now have that ridiculously ugly flag.
    Well, leaving aside the issue of the flag, which isn't a criminal offence, the end of apartheid has at least signalled the possibility that things can change for the better. Thabo Mbeki may be an idiot (AIDS from poverty, not a virus?!), but he can be replaced. My point is that at least one evil--apartheid--has been ended. That's one less evil on this earth.
    Originally posted by Soulend
    "Global warming" will be the least of their worries, I assure you. What followed (and probably precipitated) the 'fall of communism' you held up as an example earlier? Ethnic division - the very sort of thing we're talking about, which is why the former USSR now consists of a bunch of little countries, each with diffent and various ethnicity. Do you honestly believe that there is a single 'world leader'(excluding me, of course) that will be accepted by everyone? Do you really think that ruling by commitee will work, when the respective constituents will agree on precisely nothing? They certainly agree on very little now. Come now, Tony, I realize that living in Tokyo and OD'ing on comics and sci-fi flicks can insulate one from reality, but really......
    As I said earlier, paradigm shifts in thinking have occurred before. The ethnic divisions in the former Soviet Union, and the problems of modern South Africa, are because these countries have not developed the mindset conducive to democracy. They have the hardware of democratic institutions, but not the mental software to run those institutions. New programming code, however, can be written. The big mistake was to start the hardware before the software had been created.
    Originally posted by Soulend
    How very un-Kenshi like of you! Hmmm...the top of the Eiffel Tower, perhaps? His dome would be prominently displayed, and could survey his countrymen! JUST KIDDING!
    True, but it would make me feel better. I do like the idea of putting him in a zoo, though: a dying breed: dictator! Raptor-like greed and thirst for power. Only a few specimens kept alive for science's sake. View now, before they are all extinct.
    Last edited by Kimpatsu; 15th October 2003 at 06:54.

  4. #79
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    Originally posted by Vapour


    Sorry but I really have to get back to my hometown. I went to Akamatu Shogakko which used to be located next to the Castle. When I was kid, we used to climb up the wall.

    It is a different topic but by any chance do you know a kendoka whose name is Kameyama. He was my PE teacher in Kogakkukan high school and I once remeber him with his kendo mate who was white dude. I'm just wondering if it was you or not.
    Check this out. http://www.hyoho.com/Hagakure1.html

    The castle used to be school before they knocked it down They are rebuilding it at the moment. One of the few plains castles in Japan.

    Yes that was me! We used to practice at the teachers club, Kinyokai on Friday's at Kita Ko. An old gakko Kendo Renmei friend

    I used to teach English to Jojima Sensei when he was working at Kita Koko. Remember him? He was an English teacher at Kogakkukan.

    Hyakutake Colin
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

  5. #80
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    Good points, Tony. But I shan't hold my breath..being cynical, distorted and all

    That flag should be a criminal offence, though ...
    David F. Craik

  6. #81
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    Originally posted by Soulend
    Good points, Tony. But I shan't hold my breath..being cynical, distorted and all
    I don't think you're cynical, David, and you've certainly seen more suffering than I have, as a peacemaker in various global hotspots. But I'll keep trying, if only because I believe a better tomorrow is possible, a view shared by my fellow Kenshi.

  7. #82
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    Most admirable, and if none held your hope what a dismal future would await us. I suppose the very belief that a better human condition is possible is a glorious thing, not to be stifled. There is just so much evil...one is overwhelmed by the magnitude and degree of it sometimes, to the point where any improvement seems a futile proposition.
    Last edited by Soulend; 15th October 2003 at 07:06.
    David F. Craik

  8. #83
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    Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey


    Even if you get the Japanese Citizenship and passport, you will still be a "Gaijin" and an outsider.
    I would have to agree on that. I would feel pretty stupid having my photo in a Japanese passport. I have had eiju for twelve years now and thats suffucient enough.

    Now I am nearing retirement and am considering my new life I really value the nationality I was born with. They might be a bit racist /nationalisttic on their own turf but they really appreciate you if you take them outside (What am I saying?)

    I really still can't come to terms with some other peoples reasoning on this one. Its quite simple really. If we are to consider every country other than Japan as being outside it defies rationality. Are we to consder that this tiny group of islands is the real world? The island I live in you can drop in one of the great lakes and lose it.

    My answer to this gaijin phenomenon is. "Get well soon". Then again if they finally do realize the true facts as to who is really outside there are going to be thousands and thousands of Pro Gaijins/Mascots out of work! Because thats what most of the work is over here even if one cares to call it something different.

    Hyakutake Colin
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

  9. #84
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    Once we change people's thinking, Colin, with a more enlightened meme to accept the fact that race and nationality are not synonymous, white and black people with Japanese passports will be accepted. It's all about consciousness-raising.

  10. #85
    bruceb Guest

    Default I can't believe it!!!

    Originally posted by Kimpatsu
    Once we change people's thinking, Colin, with a more enlightened meme to accept the fact that race and nationality are not synonymous, white and black people with Japanese passports will be accepted. It's all about consciousness-raising.
    Something that finally makes sense!

    Very Good, Kimpatsu!

    Now ... learn to impliment it in a way the others are guided to the same conclusion, instead of being browbeaten, and you just might join the rest of us who came to this conclusion at 17 years of age in our educational process.

    We are all Gaijin in one country or another, in one culture or another, even in one local neighborhood or another, so don't lose sight of the human conditon and the need to overcome it from time to time.

    Once we embrace the fear, and separate it from the reality, the truth of each person becomes much, much clearer to the point we can treat each person in the manner they deserve or .... don't deserve.

    The landscape of nations, cultures, races, tribes, clans, families changes as technology and progress open the doors of education to international levels, so too, will the old ideas change as much as they will not.

    Each person must ask themselves if they will be part of the old ways, or educate themselves to the old ways and be part of new ways that evolve?

    For the first time ... outside of Shoriji Kempo, I see some good in Kimpatsu ... and it is truly refreshing.

  11. #86
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    No, Bruce, to the Japanese, you will always be a gaijin, even in America, because gaijin means "not Japanese according to jus sanguinis".
    Another point of consciousness that needs to be raised.

  12. #87
    L-Fitzgerald Guest

    Default I find the term offensive because -

    "Gaijin - was not the original Japanese word used to describe foreigners. Instead they used "ebisu” which in the original translation was identical to the insular Greek sense of word as being a “murderous barbarian."

    Gaijin consists of two words: “Gai” “one who destroys or harms” and “Jin” meaning: “man,” and actually is an extremely disparaging Japanese term.

    Webster's Oxford Dictionary defines Barbarian as "of or relating to a land, culture, or people alien and usually believed to be inferior to one's own or to be lacking in refinement, learning, artistic or literary culture" which precisely fits the attitudes of most Japanese towards outsiders.

    During the war in Eastern China in 1937, Japanese soldiers were instructed to regard enemy soldiers and civilians as worthless, and gave them a name, "chancorro," which translates as sub-human.

    In the 19th century when Japan was initially forced to open its nation to the western powers Americans were initially known as “Ketojin" [hairy barbarians.”] This particular term was used because during the last part of the 19th century almost all American males wore fancy beards and sported elaborate sideburns.

    During the Second World War Allied soldiers were called: “kichiku beihei" which translates as "dirty American devils." And since that time Americans are commonly referred to as: “Tenki teki Amerikaijin” which is generally translated as: “Typical American Barbarian”, however, the word “Teki” in Japanese means “Enemy” therefore its actual translation is: “Typical Enemy American Barbarian.

    Finally consider this to the Japanese individuals native to the Netherlands are called "Horranders."

  13. #88
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    Originally posted by Kimpatsu
    Once we change people's thinking, Colin, with a more enlightened meme to accept the fact that race and nationality are not synonymous, white and black people with Japanese passports will be accepted. It's all about consciousness-raising.
    But I have no trouble in obtaining a passport. Its a simple process of filling in around twenty forms and waiting around one year. It just that I dont want one!
    I am more than happy with the nationality I was born with.

    Perhaps what put me off a little was the fact that in obtaining a Japanese passport I was required to destroy my other one as dual nationality was not acceptable. Has that changed? What is getting better is the agreements between Japan and other countries. For example my pension agreement.

    On the down side we all know that if we were to tell our own countries that we had no passport they would issue us with another one anyway and you would have an undisclosed dual nationality. Then again all these inter-rcountry agreements will make that less possible

    I have been doing my bit for over twenty years to try and enlighten people but I see little difference. They are interested to know things but do not wish for change. Is there some movement going on up there in Tokyo I dont know about that is going to produce some radical changes in the near future?

    Hyakutake Colin
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

  14. #89
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    Originally posted by hyaku
    Perhaps what put me off a little was the fact that in obtaining a Japanese passport I was required to destroy my other one as dual nationality was not acceptable. Has that changed?
    No, I'm afraid the racist jus sanguinis still exists. The only OECD nation with such a shameful state of affairs. We're lobbying to change it, however.

  15. #90
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    Default Re: I find the term offensive because -

    Originally posted by L-Fitzgerald
    "Gaijin - was not the original Japanese word used to describe foreigners. Instead they used "ebisu” which in the original translation was identical to the insular Greek sense of word as being a “murderous barbarian."

    Gaijin consists of two words: “Gai” “one who destroys or harms” and “Jin” meaning: “man,” and actually is an extremely disparaging Japanese term.

    Webster's Oxford Dictionary defines Barbarian as "of or relating to a land, culture, or people alien and usually believed to be inferior to one's own or to be lacking in refinement, learning, artistic or literary culture" which precisely fits the attitudes of most Japanese towards outsiders.

    During the war in Eastern China in 1937, Japanese soldiers were instructed to regard enemy soldiers and civilians as worthless, and gave them a name, "chancorro," which translates as sub-human.

    In the 19th century when Japan was initially forced to open its nation to the western powers Americans were initially known as “Ketojin" [hairy barbarians.”] This particular term was used because during the last part of the 19th century almost all American males wore fancy beards and sported elaborate sideburns.

    During the Second World War Allied soldiers were called: “kichiku beihei" which translates as "dirty American devils." And since that time Americans are commonly referred to as: “Tenki teki Amerikaijin” which is generally translated as: “Typical American Barbarian”, however, the word “Teki” in Japanese means “Enemy” therefore its actual translation is: “Typical Enemy American Barbarian.

    Finally consider this to the Japanese individuals native to the Netherlands are called "Horranders."
    I'm not sure whether you are joking or being serious. If you are serious, you are simply exposing your lack of Japanese especially in regard to reading comprehension. In Japanese, many kanji has identical pronouciagion. What you refer to as gai=harm is different kanji from gai=outside. Because there are no question that gaijin is shortened expression of gaikokujin and there is no japanese word for harm country, your explanation is not going to work.

    Keto (red hair) is, indeed, a derogatory word for Caucasian, while Nanbanjin (Southern Barbarian) is such an archaic word that if the word is used in conversation nowaday, effect is always aim to be comical.

    I find your explanation of origin of Keto interesting but given your elementary level of Japanese (plus I suspect that you got your interpretation of gaijin from somewhere else), I have to say it is rather dubious theory. Come back with more authentic link and I will reconsider.
    -Youji Hajime.

    Engrish does not mine strong point

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