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View Poll Results: Is weapon trainng practial?

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  • Yes

    25 75.76%
  • No

    3 9.09%
  • Don't use a weapon

    1 3.03%
  • Don't care

    4 12.12%
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Thread: Weapon Trainning?

  1. #16
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    Default Kobudo

    What I meant was that if I really cant use them on the street, why pratice like I do use them on the street? Like I said before, if I did use them people would think I planed on getting in to a fight because I had them on me.
    Well, it depends on what you mean by "on the street." I agree that if your instructor is verbally telling you that this is how you carry them when you got your baggies on, then, yes, that is strange, and perhaps you should look into a new instructor. If you are having questions about all this, then maybe that is your answer. I don't think any of us are going to be able to tell you more than you know about the situation that you are personally in at the moment.

    If however, your instructor is just delving into the possible theoretical uses of the sai based on its design and composition, well then that is what a kobudo instructor should be doing. Examination of esoteric weapons in modern times is ok and can make things interesting, but there are caveats and limitations.

    For real self-defense there are better choices than a sai. Mr. Truscott, our moderator, is an advocate on canes. I know someone in my current organization of choice who also is a large proponent of canes, and I am still trying to figure out if he actually has a limp or if he is one hell of an actor.

    I have given my choices for being prepared for unpleasant situations. There are many others.

    I have learned about some very impractical weapons in my martial arts training of late. However, there things that I can take from those weapons and use in a real (although unlikely) situation. I have seen someone get completely demolished in a very unexpected demonstration with a tea cup. The dental work would have been astronomical had it been taken to its logical conclusion, and very nearly was. I don't really need to practice in the dojo for hours on end to get it, but I did play with some tea cups at home, just handling them to sink the idea in.

    However, any weapons instruction, even impractical esoteric ones need to be conducted with the idea of life and death. Even in practice people have been killed and maimed during weapons work. To teach any less, which is often the case, is a dangerous and negligent act.
    Glenn R. Manry

    ---Iaijutsu, don't forget the doorman.

  2. #17
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    Default

    Training in the use of any length of stick has modern self defense value. Sticks -- or their variations -- are everywhere. Once on a work crew, a guy lost his temper with me and tried to brain me with his shovel. I was similarly armed and addressed him with a technique from bo.

    Another time, long long ago when I carried nunchaku in the car, a fellow took offense at my driving. He accused me of cutting him off. I swear, he wasn’t there when I pulled out. He just popped out of the ground. He followed me home and vented in my face in my driveway -- road rage before the term was invented. I had my chucks in my back pocket by that time, and was ready to brain him if he reached for his pockets. He cooled off and went home after I profusely apologized for my stupidity. (verbal judo!)

    On that TKD “knife kata,” the guy who invented that obviously was a fool who knew nothing about short sharp things. Kill or Be Killed, Cold Steel, the Flos Duellotorum, and Talhoffer have all you need to know about the knife. It’s a simple, nasty, no frills instrument.

  3. #18
    Iron Chef Guest

    Default This is pretty cool

    Numchuks

  4. #19
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    Default

    Jo is pretty much the length of any broomstick. Eskrima stick is about the size of the baton of a police officer, or security guard.

    Weapons also teach you distancing and angling, even if you aren't going to fight with a sai or katana in real life. Self defence situations often happen in other places but pubs/bars or on the streets. A common place for self defence situations are homes. You can have anything you want in your home. Some people sleep with a gun under their pillow, others sleep with a katana up on the wall, a jo under the bed and some "chucks" in the fridge *just in case* LOL!
    J.T.

  5. #20
    n2shotokai Guest

    Default

    Here in California, when the Bruce Lee flicks came out, everyone was running around with "chucks". The gang bangers started bringing them to knife fights and your average Joe was knocking himself silly in his front yard trying to figure out on his own how to use them. To this day, most people here call them "chucks", much to the chagrin of the legitimate instructors.

  6. #21
    Iron Chef Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by n2shotokai
    Here in California, when the Bruce Lee flicks came out, everyone was running around with "chucks". The gang bangers started bringing them to knife fights and your average Joe was knocking himself silly in his front yard trying to figure out on his own how to use them. To this day, most people here call them "chucks", much to the chagrin of the legitimate instructors.
    I think Bruce could have used a legitimate instructor. Maybe he would have at least gripped a Nunchakun properly in one of his movies.

  7. #22
    n2shotokai Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by Iron Chef
    I think Bruce could have used a legitimate instructor. Maybe he would have at least gripped a Nunchakun properly in one of his movies.
    Why do you say that? My first instructor was Japanese. The way he taught me is very different from the Okinawan kobudo I am now involved in.

  8. #23
    Iron Chef Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by n2shotokai
    ...My first instructor was Japanese. The way he taught me is very different from the Okinawan kobudo I am now involved in.
    Then it probably wasn't correct. Gripping the kun close to the himo is cute. Its fun and you can twirl the thing real fancy like but it isn't .... Well its pretty. A lot of karate people not trained in ryukyu kobudo will do that. I happy to hear you now have a Ryukyu Kobudo teacher.

  9. #24
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    Default

    There are lots of styles and ways. It is always funny when someone says "that is fake because his grip is not like in our style". I've seen and read about enough different (authentic) styles to let such things aside.

    PS. Also remember, that Lee differentiated between Real Fighting, and Reel Fighting. And that he did not study Okinawan kobudo. He has been quoted saying that Nunchaku twirling is only good for movies...
    J.T.

  10. #25
    Iron Chef Guest

    Default

    Basic assumption in Kobudo is that you are fighting weapon against weapon and there are correct methods and incorect methods. I've seen very good Kyokushin kai guys do Nunchakun techniques. They were good karate guys but didn't know what the hell they were doing with nunchakun. Strikes must be extended and returned with a cutting action or the kun bounces back at you. You must also hold the thing toward the kontei to do this. By gripping it here you also increase your distance which is good because most bunkai is taught against Bo. Also when holding the thing close to the himo you can't properly do the squeezing and trapping techniques or the weapon which are very important in its study. Blunt force trauma is a pretty simply concept. Just because someone is as karate sensei doesn't mean he knows how to properly use a flail weapon. A lot of bad Neo-Kobudo has been proliferated by some very good karate guys.

  11. #26
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    Default Weapons

    My sensei never shows us how to wear them on the street. He even says if we ever get in to a fight, chances are we won't have a weapon on us. Unless we carry a knife some thing like that.

    I can see the use at home. But if someone broke in they would have to deal with twq German shepards. One sleeps with one of my baby girl the other one sleeps with my other two girls. So the chances of someone getting are slim. My dogs never leave my girls alone at night so I feel pretty safe for my kids. I know there are chances but I try to look on the good side.
    Train hard and you shall get what you trained for...

    Aaron Young
    Shotokan

  12. #27
    BULLDOG Guest

    Default

    Hello,

    Weapons’ training has three functions at our dojo.

    [1] To enhance basic skills that transfers to empty hand skills, an example would be utilizing full hip rotation and improving hand and eye coordination.
    [2] For practical self-defense, depending on the weapon, we teach the traditional weapons with equal importance as we do cane, knife, jo and baton.
    [3] To, just have fun!

    We also focus on the concept that weapons are tools –and- tools are weapons. Many times I will not utilize the word weapons but substitute it for tools. The concept of tools opens up a multitude of self-defense options in an every day existence.

    Yes we do teach weapons – mainly because it’s fun.

    BULLDOG
    Ed Barton

  13. #28
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    Default weapons

    I see your guys points. I agree weapon trainning in the dojo helps improve your basic skills. And yes stick trainning helps, for if you find one on the street you have advantge or at least even the odds a little.
    Train hard and you shall get what you trained for...

    Aaron Young
    Shotokan

  14. #29
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    Default Tools

    I agree with the person preceeding me when he mentioned weapons being tools. It is not in the same sense of the word though. to develope the life and death seriousiness and ablitity to deal with that kind of commitement from others it was necessary to focus on one aspect of the martial arts to the exclusion of others. When ones life was at stake medicority was not acceptable. So one focused on one aspect. weapons where one system and usually comprised only one weapon (bo or sai or...) no "and" involved. Each weapon was considered its own system. striking arts where another grappling still another etc etc. So to develope realistic and practical skills one focused on one aspect and worked it like mad. " I do not fear the man who knows ten thousand kicks. I fear the man who does one kick ten thousand times." sums up the idea. However we live in a differnt time and place and our lives are dependant more on our paperhuffling ability and not on reverse punch. So for the most part we are afforded a more leasurely study of differnt arts that comprise martial arts. At our school we view weapons as "Hojo Undo" or supplimental exercises. In that we focus on empty hand karate. Instead of lifting weights we do a much more sport spacific exercise. namely use the bo to do drills and kata. It uses the same stances/footwork as open hand but gives you the weight of the bo and the practice of hand dexterity.
    -Littlepond Wolfson

  15. #30
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    Default Weapons training

    Greetings all
    My opinion is that any martial training offers benefits in Mind over body, discipline, spirit etc. Traditional weapons training gives you skills that you can apply to improvised defensive tools that you have all around you. While most traditional martial arts weapons are illegal on the street, you ussually have some legal items that you can use as defensive tools. Flashlights (large or small), Umbrella's, long Ice scrappers, Tire irons, Kubaton type key chains, jogging sticks and my personal favorite, a sturdy Hapkido style cane, legal everywhere and an awesome self defense tool. Try doing your favorite weapons kata with an Hapkido cane. You wil be amazed at how you can improvise and modify the moves to fit the tool.
    Keep Training
    http://www.cdavisgroup.com
    Charles E Davis

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