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Thread: Iaido Ukenagashi kata

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    Default Iaido Ukenagashi kata

    I am reading the book IAI by Darrell Craig, and in it is this kata. I was wondering why, after the warding off move and the downward cut, you change to reverse grip and then sheath your sword?
    It just seems wierd to me, but in no way am I knowledgable on Iaido, so thats why I am asking you.

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    I don't know the definite answer, but I'd assume it has something to do with the type of chiburi used (the name of which escapes me at the moment). The reverse grip is in preparation for noto (which is called gyaku-te noto).

    I've wondered about a simililar "problem" with the Seitei kata, namely, why is it that sometimes one uses o-chiburi (e.g. Mae), whereas other times -- in similar positions -- it should be yoko-chiburi (e.g. Tsuka-ate, Morote-tsuki). The best answer I have found so far (a purely speculative one, mind you), is that the style of chiburi has followed the kata from the ryu from whence it originated. I imagine that these stylistic traits are more consistent within a ryu than they are in the infamously bastardized Seitei set...
    Aage Bakken

    Ki is like duct tape, it has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together. [yoj]

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    Default Re: Iaido Ukenagashi kata

    Originally posted by Shorite
    I was wondering why, after the warding off move and the downward cut, you change to reverse grip and then sheath your sword?
    It just seems wierd to me...
    It is a rather unusual way to perform an seemingly simple thing like re-sheathing the sword (noto). In some schools this method is only used in a few kata/waza, in others (TSKSR comes to mind) it is seen frequently.

    As for "why" -- ASK YOUR SENSEI!

    Originally posted by A. Bakken
    I don't know the definite answer, but I'd assume it has something to do with the type of chiburi used (the name of which escapes me at the moment).
    chi no shizuku o otosu?


    Originally posted by A. Bakken
    I've wondered about a simililar "problem" with the Seitei kata, namely, why is it that sometimes one uses o-chiburi (e.g. Mae), whereas other times -- in similar positions -- it should be yoko-chiburi (e.g. Tsuka-ate, Morote-tsuki). The best answer I have found so far (a purely speculative one, mind you), is that the style of chiburi has followed the kata from the ryu from whence it originated.
    That is my understanding as well.
    Last edited by Brian Owens; 20th November 2003 at 09:55.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    The only problem is I'm not an Iai student at a dojo, so I guess its Sensei Darrell Craig from now on.
    How many different ways (ryu?) are there of chiburi? Since it seems like a pretty basic move, I presume there isn't one for every skool.

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    Each ryu has it's own chiburi and noto, and often in several flavours. Zen Ken Ren shows a few different ones, that's all. None of the chiburi are overly useful for cleaning the blade - to do that, you need to wipe it with a cloth. I'm not entirely sure of the reason behind each noto - for some of them I suspect it's "because that's the way we do it".
    Neil Gendzwill
    Saskatoon Kendo Club

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    the noto reflects cleaning the blade with a cloth...if you have your old 'workclothes' hakama on you can use that...lets face it a pair of old hakama you can wash, but to repolish a rusty blade costs you a lot of cash! Oh yes, the noto looks 'flash' as well!

    Seitei iai...a style developed by a comittee. Remember the old joke, "you know what you get when you design an animal by comittee.. a camel". Say no more.
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    Default we have eight

    Nakamura ryu has eight different noto - officially, anyway. Nine, actually, since Nakamura-sensei had his own variation of one. And, oddly enough, none of the eight include the MJER-style o-chiburi or yoko-chiburi. (And no thanks, I'm not going to describe each of them )

    Dave
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    Originally posted by Chidokan
    the noto reflects cleaning the blade with a cloth...if you have your old 'workclothes' hakama on you can use that...lets face it a pair of old hakama you can wash, but to repolish a rusty blade costs you a lot of cash! Oh yes, the noto looks 'flash' as well!

    Seitei iai...a style developed by a comittee. Remember the old joke, "you know what you get when you design an animal by comittee.. a camel". Say no more.
    Living in a desert, owning a camel is quite a treasure.

    Isnt the term "chinugui" used for the ukenagashi-noto?
    As for the reversing of the grip. After you have "wiped" off the blade on your right, and place it with both arms stretched out slightly to your left, blade resting on your right knee: What is the shortest way to noto? If you do not reverse the grip, you have to rotate the sword. If you just reverse the grip on the right hand, the sword has to travel only a very short distance. The bastard camel has its own way of moving. Join the rhythm.
    Roar Ulvestad

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    Default Chiburi & Noto

    I was always told by my teachers that chiburi was either symbolic for wiping the blade, used as an en-guarde position or as a quick defensive cut should your opponent be playing 'possum'... Hasso & Jodan-chiburi demonstrate this pretty clearly.

    Anyway, the chiburi we see today are probably more a result of the Tokogawa era than anything else. Shindo Munen-ryu and Hokushin Itto-ryu have the most elaborate that I've seen... I actually just completed a rather lengthy article on about 30 different chiburi. When it's online, I'll post a link if anyone is interested.

    Regards,

  10. #10
    Tom D Guest

    Default My two cents

    I played with this one day. I tried to come up with a few different ways to "wipe" my blade from a drip chiburi at the end of the finishing cut in that kata from that grip. It's actually quite practical if of course you wan't a drip chiburi before wiping. I sure couldn't come up with anything better while keeping pressure on the opponent.
    Mr Bryant, I would be very interested in reading your article.

    Tom

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    Default Re: My two cents

    Originally posted by Tom D
    Mr Bryant, I would be very interested in reading your article.
    I'll second that.

    Moved and seconded. The motion passes.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Originally posted by ulvulv
    Living in a desert, owning a camel is quite a treasure. Isn't the term "chinugui" used for the ukenagashi-noto?
    Chiburui now chiburi is to shake it off.

    Chinugui is to wipe it off. All over your hakama if you would like to put your hand inside once the edge has rested.

    I though commitees were connected with elephants.

    The bigger the elephant the bigger the balls!

    Watch out Tim! Camels spit something wicked.

    But this is a good thread. In Don Harvey's excellent Seitei manual he says that the reason people could not quite get seitei right at first was because the Japanese teachers had not quite decided which way to do it themselves!

    Hyakutake Colin
    Hyakutake Colin

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    http://www.hyoho.com

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    Default Re: Iaido Ukenagashi kata

    Originally posted by Shorite
    I am reading the book IAI by Darrell Craig...
    David, David, David!

    Didn't you read the "Budo Books That Suck" thread before buying that book?

    I know the price was better than Japanese Swordsmanship by Warner & Draeger (getting hard to find, even in used paperbacks) or Flashing Steel by Shimabukuro & Pellman, but yikes! Not Darrel Craig's book!

    Just kidding. I'm glad you're reading up until such time as you can find a dojo with a sensei who will undo all your bad habits.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Watch out Tim! Camels spit something wicked.
    I just was hoping for a 'bite' off someone... just call me 'elephant man'....
    Shame Don packed it all in and went line dancing instead... the book was quite good.
    Living in a desert, owning a camel is quite a treasure.
    anyone come up with a better one than this?? Quite profound Ulvulv, at least I hope it was meant that way!
    Tim Hamilton

    Why are you reading this instead of being out training? No excuses accepted...

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    Originally posted by Chidokan
    anyone come up with a better one than this?? Quite profound Ulvulv, at least I hope it was meant that way!

    Roar Ulvestad

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