If I were at this table I'd just pour sake for y'all and listen. Fine thread.
Earl I have a question. I started to send it as a private e but then reconsidered that it may have more worth for the lads to respond to. I have always treasured Suzuki's "Zen and Japnese Culture" yet you referred to it as a confusing book. Could you share with us what you hold in low esteem about that work?