Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: kyokushin, asihara, enshin

  1. #1
    Legend Guest

    Default kyokushin, asihara, enshin

    Hi, a question:

    Could you tell me what the differences between those styles are? I've read that Enshin karate grew out of Asihara Karate, which in had grown out of kyokushin karate. So I think I can see where similarities may be but I was wondering what their distinctions are that classifies them from each other? Please no political talk, I'm just asking about technical questions - is it in the movements, tactics, curriculum emphasis, etc? Thank you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    968
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default differences

    Ashihara and Enshin emphasize sabaki, which is attacking from the "blind spot". Their kata is not like the traditional karate kata practiced by Kyokushin. However, they all are hard contact fighting karate systems. Ashihara evolved from Kyokushin. Kancho Ninomiya, who won the All Japan Karate Championship took Ashihara's forms and compressed them down to six. He is the founder of Enshin.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  3. #3
    Gene Williams Guest

    Default

    Hey, Manny, how ya' been?

  4. #4
    tamashi Guest

    Default Kyokushin, Ashihara, & Enshin

    As already mentioned, huge differences between Kyokushin and
    Ashihara/Enshin as far as kata. Ashihara/Enshin Have “fighting kata”
    which are all from a sparring stance. Bunkai are pretty intuitive and usually
    done as two person drills. Kyokushin uses traditional kata; ala more similar to Gojo and Shotokan.

    There is still a great deal of overlap in Kihon, although I would
    estimate there is less standing kihon practice in Ashihara/Enshin.
    All three practice Full Contact/ knockdown Sparring. In Kyokushin
    NO grabs or throws are allowed. In Enshin they are. If you watch
    Ninomiya’s Sabaki Challenge, it will look quite different than the
    Kyokushin competitions. I guess you could say that Kyokushin
    Will be going for the raw power and strength of Knocking out
    Or at least dominating an opponent. The other two will use blind
    Spot positioning to take advantage of their opponent. It is
    present in Kyokushin, but really capitalized on more in the other 2.

    Enshin and Ashihara will Emphasize open hand grabs and the Sabaki
    blind spot positioning. VERY good stuff, but impossible to implement the exact
    same strategies while no grabbing allowed in Kyokushin competition.
    In my opinion Enshin overemphasizes sweeps a little nowadays.
    But that is just my opinion. They still do nice Knock outs too :
    http://www.enshin.com/pics/sabaki2002/ward.mpg


    Some discussion on the topic before, check out
    http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...light=ashihara

    Ashihara and Enshin are extremely similar. Enshin seems
    to have specialized more and more (in the tournaments
    Anyways) of sweeping an opponent from the blind spot.

    You may also be interested in Seidokaikan which was developed
    By Kancho Ishi. He split off from Ashihara early and tried to
    Put more of the power back in. Looks kinda like a combo
    Of Kyokushin, Ashihara, and Muay Thai. Check out
    http://www.shodokaikan.com/ with some nice articles at:
    http://www.shodokaikan.com/media.php

    Shidokan also has some nice variations as well, check out
    http://www.shidokan.com/
    they have a branch in your area.

    hope this is helpful for you.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Jersey City, New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    140
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Sorry to sound ignorant, but what is blind spot positioning?
    Sam Cervantes

  6. #6
    tamashi Guest

    Default blind spot positioning

    Originally posted by sammycerv
    Sorry to sound ignorant, but what is blind spot positioning?
    sammycerv:

    to use sabaki concepts is common.
    It was not invented by Ashihara.
    often called tai sabaki, it simply means
    circling your opponent.

    using the blind spot, is just getting out of view of your
    attacker, so when your counter is delivered, they do
    not see it coming in.

    example: I lunge in with a big forward-moving lunging left strike.
    you side step me, maybe even stepping forward or off at a bit of
    an oblique angle. while you are moving, parry my left strike with
    your right hand. grab onto my sleeve (or arm) and pivot on
    the ball of your right foot, so your left foor is behind
    or at least to the side. For a split second i am still going
    forward but you are now to my left side, facing almost the
    same direction as i, and in control of one of my limbs.
    as you yank my arm down, your left leg is already ready to
    deliver a Knee kick or left round kick to my head.
    feel free to use your let hand to drive my head down into your
    incoming kick. a counter like this that is unseen, due to
    coming from outside my peripheral vision will shake me up much more
    than a technique i have a second to set myself for.
    the sequence i just took you through is position 2
    in enshin and Ashihara karate. there are 4 positions.

    a picture is worth a thoudand words,
    here area couple of other examples:
    http://users.iafrica.com/a/as/ashihara/webdoc20.htm

    i hope my walk through made sense too.

    regards,

  7. #7
    tamashi Guest

    Default

    the person in this pictures has probably just done
    something pretty similar to what i just described:
    http://www.enshinnewjersey.com/north...i_regional.htm


  8. #8
    n2shotokai Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by tamashi
    the person in this pictures has probably just done
    something pretty similar to what i just described:
    http://www.enshinnewjersey.com/north...i_regional.htm

    Is it me, the camera angle or what?? The mawashi-geri seems to be leaning i.e. his support leg is off to the left, not under his body? Maybe it's the pic! Or maybe it is better positioning for the guy on the left to massage the dudes foot with his forehead.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Jersey City, New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    140
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Mr. Thorensen,

    Thank you for your well described explination! Is it safe to say it means you move out of the way where they can't see you? Great New Jersey Enshin link! He has a school 1.5 miles from me. I think I'll check it out.
    Sam Cervantes

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    968
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Hello

    Gene, what's up brother? I hope your holidays have been going well. We've missed you on here. I'll drop you a line.

    Good explanations Paul. What I like about Kyokushin and the offshoots is their emphasis on realistic combat. They know what works because they train in much fighting and contact.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  11. #11
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by n2shotokai
    Is it me, the camera angle or what?? The mawashi-geri seems to be leaning i.e. his support leg is off to the left, not under his body? Maybe it's the pic! Or maybe it is better positioning for the guy on the left to massage the dudes foot with his forehead.

    There is more to it why the kick is delivered from that particular angle and it is mainly due to the set-up technique. If you watch a video you 'll notice the angle often.


    The picture appears to be from a live full-contact match. It looks like the kick landed so it seems the positioning was effective.

  12. #12
    tamashi Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by sammycerv
    Mr. Thorensen,

    Thank you for your well described explination! Is it safe to say it means you move out of the way where they can't see you? Great New Jersey Enshin link! He has a school 1.5 miles from me. I think I'll check it out.
    Yes, just like cars, people havve blind spots too

    Hope you enjoy visiting the Enshin School.

    There is a big tournament coming up in Washinton DC
    in just a little over a month as well. there will
    be lots of examples of the these techniques there.
    http://www.geocities.com/fighting_ka...004KDUSCSC.htm

    regards,

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Jersey City, New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    140
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Originally posted by tamashi
    Yes, just like cars, people havve blind spots too
    Everthing is a blind spot when my glasses are taken off!!!
    Sam Cervantes

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    968
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Blind Spot

    Yeah, that lick was definitley a blind spot kick. The guy that got hit was pretty blinded by it. Often times in Enshinor Ashihara is that you can grab, and that helps with leverage.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    590
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    In theory it's a great idea to attain position on his blind spot & then attack.In reality just like all fighting theories getting into that blind spot is not always so easy.
    Hector Gomez
    "Todo es Bueno"

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •