Bush Overruled on Enemy Combatant

[elder999]

NEW YORK - President Bush does not have power to detain American citizen Jose Padilla, the former gang member seized on U.S. soil, as an enemy combatant, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday.



The decision could force the government to try Padilla, held in a so-called "dirty bomb" plot, in civilian courts. In a 2-1 ruling, a three-judge panel of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) said Padilla's detention was not authorized by Congress and that Bush could not designate him as an enemy combatant without the authorization.


Padilla is accused of plotting to detonate a "dirty bomb," which uses conventional explosives to disperse radioactive materials. The former Chicago gang member was arrested in May 2002 and within days was moved to a naval brig in Charleston, S.C.


The court directed Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to release Padilla from military custody within 30 days, but said the government was free to transfer him to civilian authorities who can bring criminal charges.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...rror_suspect_4

So, what do you think? Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?

[Tamdhu]

Bush did what he thought was right and did so openly. Others disagreed and did what they thought was right, and now the courts have decided.

So long as Padilla is convicted and executed (after a fair trial of course ; ), I don't care if he is listed as an 'enemy combatant' or an 'irate shoe salesman'.

My question is, how long before Jessie Jackson chimes in for Padilla's release as a fluffy, harmless victim of the Evil Corporate White Republican Racist Conspiracy?

[elder999]

Originally posted by Tamdhu
Bush did what he thought was right and did so openly. Others disagreed and did what they thought was right, and now the courts have decided.

So long as Padilla is convicted and executed (after a fair trial of course ; ), I don't care if he is listed as an 'enemy combatant' or an 'irate shoe salesman'.

My question is, how long before Jessie Jackson chimes in for Padilla's release as a fluffy, harmless victim of the Evil Corporate White Republican Racist Conspiracy?

All we know about Padilla is what all he's guilty of so far is getting off a plane from Pakistan with $11,000 dollars in his possession, and, of course, his admitted al Qaeda training and connections.

Execution does seem a bit out of line for the law of the land.

It also really makes a difference how he is tried:since he got off the plane at O'Hare, if I'm not mistaken, while he might be tried in a Federal court for conspiracy, there is no death penalty in Illinois, nor, so far as I know, could he be found guilty of anything that would bring a Federal death penalty, except, of course, treason, which is notoriously difficult to prove, especially under circumstances such as these.

I think the guy's a dirty thug,who traded his street gang for for terroism, and he's also something of an idiot who deserves a life sentence for criminal stupidity and some sort of conspiracy charge, but all that anyone can prove he did was get off a plane from the wrong place, and choose the wrong friends.

As for Jesse Jackson, who knows?

[Shitoryu Dude]

Sounds to me like a good case could be made for treason, which carries the death penalty.

[elder999]

Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Sounds to me like a good case could be made for treason, which carries the death penalty.

Well, yeah, I said that.

TREASON.

Let's look at the definition:

U.S. Constitution; Article 3, Section 3: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court."

Like I said, notoriously difficult to prove.

[Shitoryu Dude]

Damn.

Well, he still is going to be spending the rest of his life in prison. Most likely get killed there as well.

[Starkjudo]

The only thing I could disagree with here is this (and this is not meant to be political):

As I understand it, the '93 WTC bombings were tried as criminal cases. As such, intel had to be made public for a sucessful prosecution. By making this case a civilian matter, the same would apply, and any classified intel that is involved in this case, if there is any, would be "lost" - i.e., made public and therefore useless to us.

[elder999]

Originally posted by Starkjudo
The only thing I could disagree with here is this (and this is not meant to be political):

As I understand it, the '93 WTC bombings were tried as criminal cases. As such, intel had to be made public for a sucessful prosecution. By making this case a civilian matter, the same would apply, and any classified intel that is involved in this case, if there is any, would be "lost" - i.e., made public and therefore useless to us.

THis is the only real and substantive reason for holdoing this a$$-hole as an "enemy combatant." Unlike John Walker Lindh and that other American-the name escapes me- he has not borne arms against the U.S., nor was he captured overseas in a combat zone, as they were. As long as he was held as such, though, he couldn't see a lawyer, have any visitors or even be visited by a chaplain, and we-that is our government agancies-could squeeze him for the very little intel he is probably worth-though, in terms of intelligence, who knows what he knows.....

As far as intel being revealed in court, that has been and can be prevented, as in the Wen Ho Lee case, here in Los Alamos. Just because a trial is "speedy,"and the defendant has the right to face his accusers, does not make necessarily make all phases of it public.

[Senjojutsu]

There's breaking news as of 15:00 EST that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled 2-1 that the Guantanamo Bay prisoners should have access to lawyers, American court systems.

However this is the same court also known as the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals in San Fran who rules based on feelings and judges' political bias and not on case law - therefore they are constantly being rebuked and overruled by the US Supreme Court.

[Mitch Saret]

Illinois has had a death penalty for a long time. We executed John Wayne Gacy, among others. There has been a problem with over zealous prosecution as well as several other reasons, Former Governor George Ryan (currently under indictment himself) imposed a moratorium on the death penalty. Technically, we still have it. But for now, all current death row inmates have a stay of execution, and no cases will be tried as seath penalty cases. Effectively, we don't have it, but it could come back at anytime.

As to this thug, the 9th circuit has been overturned so many times that their rulings are almost a joke. Odds arte they will be overturned again.

[elder999]

Originally posted by Mitch Saret
As to this thug, the 9th circuit has been overturned so many times that their rulings are almost a joke. Odds arte they will be overturned again.

The Padilla ruling comes from the 2nd U.S. Circuit...

[Senjojutsu]

The Padilla ruling comes from the 2nd U.S. Circuit...

Correct, two separate appellate rulings in as many days.

However the Guantanamo plantiffs just went court shopping to find a favorable, if transitory, ruling.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20031218/D7VH0F104.html

"The Supreme Court last month agreed to decide whether the detainees, picked up in Afghanistan and Pakistan, should have access to the courts. The justices agreed to hear that case after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled that the prisoners had no rights to the American legal system."

[Catalase]

Oy.

Only the 9th Circuit would decide that enemy combatants have a right guaranteed to American CITIZENS.

[larsen_huw]

Oy.

Only an american citizen could decide that the rights the Guantanamo Bay prisoners have are either legal or just.

If you don't wanna give them american rights, how about you ship them off to their own countries for a fair and speedy trial under the rights afforded them by their nationality.

[L-Fitzgerald]

out of the fact that the other suspect, Mussari [sp?] only wants access to some of the top ranking Al Qeada members that have been captured so he can "prove" that he is not part of their organization. Can you imagine that any terrorist would "ever" lie under oath while in a US courtroom. After all they just admire our way of life, and system of government SOOOO MUCH.

As for the 93 WTC bombing, it was a criminal trial, but after the death of Mier Khane investigators began translating the many tapes and documents that had been siezed and slowly began to learn more about AQ, and the thugs that make up the organization.

But, Padilla should be tried, and his request should be taken at face value... but it may not be granted because his case is a criminal one, and the Gtmo prisoners may not necessarily be permitted to appear because they fall under a separate jurisdiction and that is the military. I dont recall anything in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, or any other JAG related regulations stating that someone involved in a criminal trial can have free access to a military prisoner, but then my knowledge of military law vis-a-vie criminal law is very limited.