Fukuro Shinai source?

[Mekugi]

Yeah I run the web page. It's actually owned by a guy named Higashikubo. He really is a great guy.

I did a little more questioning to a friend of mine in Tokyo, and there are two types out there. The Kashima Shin ryu version technically is not supposed to have a tsuba (however they train with the tsuba off the Japanese web page pic I have). Kashinma Shinto Ryu has a large leather tsuba, which is the actual "brand-name for the Fukurojinai": the Kashima Shinto ryu Fukurojinai. So ok, they both use each type- however knowing "the brand name" helps when dealing with the people that produce them. They run $150 USD up at Sakuraya in Tokyo (The Kashima Shinto Ryu version) but I might be able to plow under that price. We'll see how it goes!

Talk soon!

-Russ
(BTW...the picture is of Kashima Shin Ryu)

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
Ah, very interesting. One of those "Eureka" moments. This matches something I was told (but had never been authenticated by independant reports) that the "Version 1.0" was just a bokken with some cloth padding wrapped around it and stuffed in a sword bag.

Thanks for your continuing efforts, BTW. I really apprecitate it. Also, I searched for web pages for Kimura Shokai and Power Budo based on your previous post, and only found one for Power Budo. Too bad it's all in Japanese but I liked the pictures, and from what I hear the operator (owner?) is a great guy.

[MakotoDojo]

http://www.timbathurst.net/tombo.html

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by MakotoDojo
http://www.timbathurst.net/tombo.html

Ummm.....yeah okay.(Coff).

[don]

Originally posted by kokumo
The feeling of the shinai changed totally afterward, particularly in contact with another shinai; after shellacing, it slipped along the sides and back of the "opposing shinai" much more easily (and based on my few cautious experiments with steel blades, much more closely to the characterisics of a live blade)....

As a water-base finish, shellac is not suitable for outdoor use in the rain. Polyurethane (did a couple that way) adds a noticable dollop of additional weight. Spar varnish is ideal if you want to allow for both indoor and outdoor (wet-weather) usage.

Hope this helps,

It does. Thanks. Interesting to hear the difference in performance. I think I'll go with the spar varnish...alas, yet another item for my to-do list...

[Nathan Scott]

I'd be curious to see a pic of someone's varnished bujin shinai. A friend of mine tried to lacquer his bujin shinai many years ago, and it ended up krinkled and "crunchy", not smooth like the KSR/YSR shinai.

The YSR shinai, btw, does have lacquer on the seam and on the tsuka-himo (outward side only). The tsuka-himo feels a little stiff for a while before it breaks in, but they are designed to be easy to disassemble for maintenance purposes. I would suspect the YSR shinai are much easier to take apart than the KSR ones.

Maniwa nen ryu also use white fukuro shinai with tsuba, that look very much like the KSR ones in the photo. However, the MNR shinai have a leather thong that winds around the tsuka and is attached to the tsuba, in order to allow for adjustment of the tsuba height.

Regards,

[kokumo]

Originally posted by Nathan Scott
I'd be curious to see a pic of someone's varnished bujin shinai. A friend of mine tried to lacquer his bujin shinai many years ago, and it ended up krinkled and "crunchy", not smooth like the KSR/YSR shinai.

Nathan --

I'll see if I can get some decent pics this weekend. Mind you, true lacquer or "urushi" was not one of the treatments I attempted.

In terms of ease of application, evenness of coating, quickness of hardening, least stringent requirements for optimal weather conditions, and associated ventilation needs, shellac was the easiest of the three treatments I have tried.

The poly was pretty thick and the most difficult to apply in multiple thin coats; varnish I was able to thin enough to minimize that problem, but even then, a muggy spell that descended just after the initial coat slowed drying time to 3-4 days per layer. Impatience would have resulted in disaster, as it took close to a month to go through the "apply a thin coat, allow to fully harden, then sand lightly" process five times, which is what it ended up taking. No, I didn't sand the final coat.

Unless outdoor, wet-weather use is critical, particularly for individuals who haven't worked with finishing products before and/or don't have access to a very well-ventilated low-humidity drying area, my strong personal recommendation would be to go with shellac as the first choice to finish a Bujin shinai.

Your mileage may vary,

Fred Little

[chizikunbo]

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
Hello all,

I'm trying to obtain a fukuro shinai of the type pictured below (top item).

Does anyone know of a source, and can supply me with contact info?

They look like they would be fairly easy to make, why not just make one, Is there a reason you like this specific style?

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by chizikunbo
They look like they would be fairly easy to make, why not just make one.

Without having one in hand to examine, it would not be possible for me to make one that was authentic in exact execution.

Also, time is valuable, and gathering together the needed materials and tools just to make one would not be a good use of my time.

Originally posted by chizikunbo
Is there a reason you like this specific style?

Yes. As stated on page one of this thread:

Originally posted by Nathan Scott
...Just wondering why you would want a rather ryu-specific shinai when the bujin design shinai are about 1/2 to 1/3 the price (not quite the same, but functional at least).

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
I already have a Bujin Design shinai. It's patterned after a Yagyu Ryu hikihada shinai, except made with suede instead of leather...The reason I'm looking for a fukuro shinai is because I am putting together a small collection of budo/bugei related weapons, training aids, etc...I'm hoping to have a sort of mini-museum in a few years...I already have several different styles of bokken/bokuto (still need a few more), a replica Amakuni tachi, and lots of books...

Mr. Ebert has found a source for me, and I'm just waiting for him to get a final price worked out.

Thanks all, for your responses.

[chizikunbo]

I see, sorry for the dumb comment

[Brian Owens]

No, no. Not dumb at all. Both questions were reasonable.

Someone with more time, and more handy than I with making things would, indeed be able to make one, I'm sure.

And I answered your question about why by copying my earlier post only because I'm on my way out the door (I work on weekends) and thought it would save time.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

[chizikunbo]

No you did not leave the wrong impression, I just wanted to apoligize for asking a question that has already been answered, sorry for the confusion

[kokumo]

Originally posted by Nathan Scott
I'd be curious to see a pic of someone's varnished bujin shinai. A friend of mine tried to lacquer his bujin shinai many years ago, and it ended up krinkled and "crunchy", not smooth like the KSR/YSR shinai.

Here you gol Nathan, sorry for the delay...the black shinai are bujin, the shoto is just a full-size shinai that I cut down after breaking a stave, which is why the extra lacing at the handle. In fact, these two have a base of four coats of spar varnish and three of shellac on top of that.



Here's a better look at the surface. It was high gloss at the conclusion of the shellac process, but this will give you a sense of what happens to that glossy finish after a little bit of contact.



Here are a couple of shots of a homemade shinai that had been laying around the dojo forever and a day. As you can see from wrap at the tsuka in the first picture, the leather was originally white suede on one side and artificial lime green on the other. This one was done entirely with shellac and the process was much simpler, though the shinai itself was much more irregular than an off-the-rack bujin shinai.



When I applied the first coat of shellac, I was horrified by what I saw starting to happen. But by the time I got the seventh coat on, the idea of a toadskin shinai was growing on me. The original holes for the lacing on the cover were too small in many cases. I left one of them a touch narrow so the contrast between the original color and the finish is still visible where the lace rolls to fit through.

http://www.kokumo.com/images/greenshinaidet2.gif

With both the bujin and the homemade shinai, I like the feeling in partner practice much more than I did the suede, and I'm glad someone got after me to "finish" the shinai.

Fred Little

[Nathan Scott]

Wow, looks great Mr. Little. I've had a problem with the shinai tsuka-himo breaking where it connects to the shiai sleeve, being suede and all. The YSR FShinai are lacquered along the tsuka-himo as well. Have you had a problem with the himo breaking yet?

Anyway, yours looks MUCH better than what my friend ended up with. Maybe I'll give it a try.

Thanks for posting the photos - very helpful,

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by kokumo
...In fact, these two have a base of four coats of spar varnish and three of shellac on top of that...Here's a better look at the surface. It was high gloss at the conclusion of the shellac process, but this will give you a sense of what happens to that glossy finish after a little bit of contact...

In watchmaking we use melted shellac to fix certain kinds of jewels (the "pallet stones") to metal (the "pallet fork"), so I know from experience that true shellac can be brittle.

I wonder how a synthetic finish, such as polyurethane, would hold up. Has anyone here tried that?

[chizikunbo]

I may look into using these at our dojo, they look like thay could be pretty usefull.