Guns are Bad-NOT!

[elder999]

Did anyone see 20/20 the other night.? John Stossel had a segment called [I]”Lies, Myths and Downright Stupidity.” You can see the top ten lies here , but it was lie #3 that got me: “Guns Are Bad.” (Though I also had a laugh at lie #6....."Republicans Shrink Government.")

America is notorious for its culture of gun violence. Guns sometimes do cause terrible harm, and many kids are killed every year in gun accidents. But public service announcements and news stories make it seem as if the accidents kill thousands of kids every year.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, however, fewer than 100 kids 15 and under are killed in gun accidents every year. Of course that's horrible, and I understand why demonstrators say we need more gun control.
But guess what? The Centers for Disease Control recently completed a review of studies of various types of gun control: background checks, waiting periods, bans on certain guns and ammunition. It could not document that these rules have reduced violent crime. The government wants to say things like the Brady Gun Control Law are making a difference, but they aren't. Some maximum security felons I spoke to in New Jersey scoffed at measures like the Brady law. They said they'll have no trouble getting guns if they want them.
A Justice Department study confirmed what the prisoners said. But get this: the felons say that the thing they fear the most is not the police, not time in prison, but, you, another American who might be armed.
It's a reason many states are passing gun un-control. They're allowing citizens to carry guns with them; it's called concealed carry or right to carry. Some women say they're comforted by these laws.
Many people are horrified at the idea of concealed carry laws, and predict mayhem if all states adopt these laws.
But surprise, 36 states already have concealed carry laws, and not one reported an upsurge in gun crime.

[Blackwood]

I wonder:

What defines a 'kid'?
What defines an 'accident'?

We loose 50 or so kids in Detroit on an annual basis to gunfire, but it isn't accidental. Someone intentionally pulled the trigger.

Guns don't kill people. Bullets do.

[Shitoryu Dude]

The anti-gun lobby commonly calls them such things as "juvenile gun deaths" and include everything they can for anyone under the age or 21. They then turn around and make it out to be all accidental shootings of toddlers. The anti-gun crowd is just as dishonest as the greenfreak/enviromentalist group.

[Dex]

At least the pro-gunners are honest. They just don't care how many kids die

[Shitoryu Dude]

This is my favorite part:

Myth No. 5 — The Rich Don't Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes

We've all heard this one during the presidential campaign. When it comes to income taxes, the Democratic presidential candidates keep telling us, the rich don't pay enough. That's a widespread belief, but do the politicians even know how much of the income tax burden the rich pay now?

According to presidential candidate Al Sharpton, "The top one percent in this country pays very much less than ten percent, very much less than five percent."

Sharpton said he thinks the wealthy should pay "somewhere around 15 percent."

But that's so silly because — and I bet most of you don't know this — the IRS says the richest 1 percent of taxpayers already pay 34 percent of all income taxes. Twice what Sharpton wanted them to pay.

Still you may feel the rich should pay even more. It's a tempting thought, since they have so much.

But let's remember the facts: the top 1 percent of Americans — those who earn more than about $300,000 a year — pay 34 percent, more than a third of all income taxes, and the top 5 percent, those making over $125,000, pay more than half.

Of course, the best part was watching Sharpton put his foot in his mouth up the thigh. I don't even know why he's running - to be blunt about it, he's not qualified to lead a pack of Cub Scouts, much less the country.

[elder999]

Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude

Of course, the best part was watching Sharpton put his foot in his mouth up the thigh. I don't even know why he's running - to be blunt about it, he's not qualified to lead a pack of Cub Scouts, much less the country.

See who gets elected next mayor of New York, though.....

Originally posted by Dex, who needs an analcraniotomy At least the pro-gunners are honest. They just don't care how many kids die

This is just the sort of limp wristed jab I've come to expect from you.

Yes, for the record, that was an insult, though I could just as easily have pointed out how simply intellectually dishonest your post is, and you'd have still called it an "insult."

Troll.You are living proof that some people shouldn't have guns.

For the record, the death of a child is tragic-the accidental shooting death of a child in a gun-owning home is doubly tragic, because it is generally due to the stupidity or ignorance of the gun-owner.My parents both grew up in homes with guns, I grew up in a home with guns, and both my kids reached adulthood in a home with guns.No accidental shootings, or even near misses, and that is probably the norm for responsible gun-ownership.

[Jerry Johnson]

The tagline should read "Lies, Myths and Downright Stupidity
by John Stossel."

I have never been a fan of Stossel's emotional reporting, nor do I think his reporting is of any more quality then the National Enquirer. Clearly, he is creating what he is criticizing on.

On the topic of Guns

The misuse of guns are mostly at the hands of the criminals. The general public is at fault in terms of irresponsibility when a small number of children are shot. I am willing to bet more small kids ( 0-5 years old) are killed in car accidents, in or outside of the car, i.e. poor car design safety, improper or no seat belt, crossing a street, hit by drunk or irresponsible driver, etc. then guns. Gee, why has this gone ignored. Well, the media and groups are politically selective.

We could almost eliminate guns from our societies criminal use. But, Capitalism ( as the art of making people unrealistically rich and powerful) and its politics stands in the way. We could also reduce the crime rate to that of a normalcy or below. But alas, that too stands in the way of people getting rich and powerful (elected).

Guns have been a part of this country since the first European invaders landed and planned to over take this land; commit genocide, murder, rape and steal from the native people around 1492. So why do we need guns outside of modern hunting industry $$$( snicker- more like slaughtering/animal murder; the animal has no chance with an automatic firearm or an high the advance technology weapon). We do need guns today in some places; Florida and Texas has proved the nay-sayers wrong. But, God forbid California every passes a law allowing them to have guns. Some states shouldn't be allowed to have guns, it is a reality and responsibility thing. Go Arnold!

I don't like hearing kids being killed in anyway, I am most concerned that kids in school have been for along time killing each other in schools, hospitals and other public and private places. It bothers me that kills now recently have been planning and excuting mass murder of their schoolmates. This isn't a gun issue, this is a social problem.

If I could carry a gun,( for those who have not read my posts before concerning violence, I have been close enough to real violence to have this attitude) I would. I would blow away someone tries to rob or threaten my life . Because that is what society has come to. All for the sake of those elite sickend and obsessed with obtaining money and power. Instead of out-lawing guns we should out law such people.

[elder999]

I pretty much agree with your post, Mr. Johnson, except for this:

Originally posted by Jerry Johnson

So why do we need guns outside of modern hunting industry $$$( snicker- more like slaughtering/animal murder; the animal has no chance with an automatic firearm or an high the advance technology weapon).

My wife and I are among a growing contingent of hunters who use a relatively primitive weapon. I've used a bow to take my deer for...well, almost forever, and only the distances sometimes required, and the knockdown power I prefer, have caused me to hunt elk with a rifle-though I did take one with a bow, it was hard.

The thing ran about 5 miles, just as they've been known to do with good lung and heart shots from a .30-06.

I've gone after elk with my muzzle loader for the past 4 years now;it's a modern .54 caliber, with a muzzle velocity of nearly 2200 fps, so it's hardly a "primitive weapon," but it is truly suited to the purpose of killing elk-though, it's not an automatic weapon, or even "advance technology."

I don't hunt what I don't eat, and the bow-or slingshot- is more than enough-best, actually,-for anything as small or smaller than a deer. I've used it to go after rabbit when I have a taste for wild rabbit, and I've fished with it on numerous occasions.

I might have occasion to kill a marauding coyote, bear, bobcat or mountain lion, but my dogs seem to keep them pretty well away. If I were to kill a bear in the yard, well,it'd be with the shotgun or rifle, and it would probably feel more like murder to me, as I've usually only had to shoo them away.

One of my dogs killed a bobcat trying to get into our chickencoop-I felt bad about that, though the dog was only doing his job.

I've always wanted to hunt Cape Buffalo, the one truly tasty animal (I'm told, anyway) that has a real chance of killing a hunter, though there are stories of hunters being gored by elk, and I'm told that bear can be tasty, though I don't care for it very much at all.

[Shitoryu Dude]

Well Jerry, you need to actually go hunting a few times before you comment on it. It just isn't that easy.

[elder999]

Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Well Jerry, you need to actually go hunting a few times before you comment on it. It just isn't that easy.

Yeah. What he said.

(For the record, there are a variety of embarassing reasons that I don't ever talk about turkey hunting-chief among them, of course, is never having gotten one.....)

[G. Zepeda]

I've been hunting, for the most part, if you want a bird, you can always set a snare. That, and fishing, have got to be the easiest ways to hunt. Primitive bow, spear, and rock hunting probably go after that, unless you are a real badass and can take your prey with your bare hands. I think I might be able to take a field mouse...
Then there's your newer more advanced bows, and short muzzle pistol hunting. I would put riflery and other such artillery into another category altogether, the range and accuracy makes it so much more powerful.

[Jerry Johnson]

Shitoryu Dude said

Well Jerry, you need to actually go hunting a few times before you comment on it. It just isn't that easy.

Hunting in this modern world is sport. My forefathers hunted to live, not just for trophy. I use to hunt the way my forefathers did. They had primitive and crude hunting tools. The success rate meant life or death for both the us and the game, and it was a person's raw hunting skill and not the commercial merchandise and technology that provided the edge. Unlike t people like Custer and Will Bill, and so many other white men, who hunted us "diggers" and buffalo. They damn near put both of us off the face of the earth, with there obsession of killing and the ease of killing mentality. Death without respect.

ShitO dude, I just had a bow in my hand at the age of five. I learned to make my own bow and arrows from both natural and made materials. My father taught me to hunt in the same way his father and father and father and so on did before him did. I didn't just go down to the sporting goods store at 18 years old and pick up a case of cheap beer, in my over equipped 4x4 pick up, buy a high powered rifle and ammo, and dress up in a bunch of commercial garbage to give me every advantage over the game,. I didn't learn to hunt and track from a video tape, in my living room and call myself a hunter. so your are right I have never hunted.

[elder999]

Originally posted by Jerry Johnson
Shitoryu Dude said


Hunting in this modern world is sport. My forefathers hunted to live, not just for trophy. I use to hunt the way my forefathers did. They had primitive and crude hunting tools. The success rate meant life or death for both the us and the game, and it was a person's raw hunting skill and not the commercial merchandise and technology that provided the edge. Unlike t people like Custer and Will Bill, and so many other white men, who hunted us "diggers" and buffalo. They damn near put both of us off the face of the earth, with there obsession of killing and the ease of killing mentality. Death without respect.

ShitO dude, I just had a bow in my hand at the age of five. I learned to make my own bow and arrows from both natural and made materials. My father taught me to hunt in the same way his father and father and father and so on did before him did. I didn't just go down to the sporting goods store at 18 years old and pick up a case of cheap beer, in my over equipped 4x4 pick up, buy a high powered rifle and ammo, and dress up in a bunch of commercial garbage to give me every advantage over the game,. I didn't learn to hunt and track from a video tape, in my living room and call myself a hunter. so your are right I have never hunted.

I don't buy very much in the way of meat, by choice. I've also been hunting, with a 6 year or so hiatus, since I was a boy...when there were no videos to learn from. I know from his other posts that Harvey grew up the same way-almost the same way as you.

For me, it's never been sport-it puts meat on my table, and on the tables of those that can't hunt for themselves anymore. I'd maintain that it's always the person's "raw hunting skill," and not technology that determines the success of the hunt, apropos of people getting lost in the woods with their GPS and cell-phone in hand..

[Dex]

Originally posted by elder999

This is just the sort of limp wristed jab I've come to expect from you.

Yes, for the record, that was an insult, though I could just as easily have pointed out how simply intellectually dishonest your post is, and you'd have still called it an "insult."

Troll.You are living proof that some people shouldn't have guns.

For the record, the death of a child is tragic-the accidental shooting death of a child in a gun-owning home is doubly tragic, because it is generally due to the stupidity or ignorance of the gun-owner.My parents both grew up in homes with guns, I grew up in a home with guns, and both my kids reached adulthood in a home with guns.No accidental shootings, or even near misses, and that is probably the norm for responsible gun-ownership.

Very good. I am a troll for pointing out that pro-gunners don't care abut kids getting killed...you insult me (yawn) and then go on to claim it didn't happen in your house so someone else is to blame.

My logic is....houses that have guns are where kids get killed by accident (someone else of course, disputed the term 'kid')...your logic is, it didn't happen in your house (or your parent's) so I am wrong?

Citing 'the norm' is pathetic when you know for a fact that it happens in other people's houses. And of course, statistically it could happen in your house if you also have kids and guns

I just have kids, no guns...so don't tell me I am a troll...tell my kids and we will let them decide who is more insulting

You are living proof that some people shouldn't have kids

[elder999]

Originally posted by Dex
Very good. I am a troll for pointing out that pro-gunners don't care abut kids getting killed...you insult me (yawn) and then go on to claim it didn't happen in your house so someone else is to blame.

My logic is....houses that have guns are where kids get killed by accident (someone else of course, disputed the term 'kid')...your logic is, it didn't happen in your house (or your parent's) so I am wrong?

Citing 'the norm' is pathetic when you know for a fact that it happens in other people's houses. And of course, statistically it could happen in your house if you also have kids and guns

I just have kids, no guns...so don't tell me I am a troll...tell my kids and we will let them decide who is more insulting

You are living proof that some people shouldn't have kids

Well, my kids would certainly disagree with you.

Car accidents kill more kids than guns-by your "logic," those who have kids shouldn't have cars.

Or doctors.
Or appliances in the home.
Dogs.
Household cleansers.
Power tools.
Gasoline.
Over the counter and prescription medicines.
Swimming pools.
Hot tubs.
Motorcycles.
Bicycles.
Skateboards.
Wrought iron fences.
Balconies.
Horses.
Snakes.
Food or drink :more children die of choking than accidental shootings in the home-choking is the #1 accidental death for children, after car accidents, so don't feed them.


While it does happen in "other people's houses," it simply didn't happen in mine because everyone was thoroughly educated about firearms, including leaving them alone.My dad grew up in a house where fireamrs were readily available, as did my mom,as I did, and as did my children- and we all knew to leave them alone without explicit permission and supervision until we were old enough to be trusted on our own.

My daughter is going to be 18 this month; guess what she's getting for her birthday?