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Thread: The Modern Samurai Creed

  1. #1
    Mekugi Guest

    Wink The Modern Samurai Creed

    So I have been kicking the peanut around here...I came up with this:

    The Modern Samurai creed:

    Part 1

    "The Japanese Samurai is a dead class. It has been dead since the Meiji restoration. There is no such thing as a modern samurai; no more than there is such a thing as a modern 'knight of the round table'. Therefore, in itself, the notion of a modern day samurai is silly."

    Part 2

    Add:
    "anyone pretending to be a modern samurai needs to seek psychological attention."

    Part 3

    Add:
    "people expounding on the nobility of being a modern samurai also spends their time talking to the modern Napoleon in the loony bin, arguing over who looks sillier.

    Part 4

    Add:
    "Go away you Jaggoff".


    (Please add and amend appropriately).

  2. #2
    RayCorrea Guest

    Default What about samurai lineage...

    What would you call a person who could trace his samurai lineage back past the Meiji restoration?

    And say that person lived by a strict martial code?

    Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying someone roaming around Japan with two swords, looking to hone his skill against other swordsman, but some who lives and walks the talk as best he could in a modern world?

    I would call that person a Modern Samurai.

  3. #3
    Mekugi Guest

    Default Re: What about samurai lineage...

    Some guy that had ancestors that were bushi with strong moral beliefs. That's what I would call him. If he studied the martial arts, I would call him a "budoka"

    Say a persons great, great, great grandfather was in the Civil War and fought on the side of the Confederacy. They join the Army. Does that make a person a Confederate soldier?

    See "Part 1".

    Originally posted by RayCorrea
    What would you call a person who could trace his samurai lineage back past the Meiji restoration?

    And say that person lived by a strict martial code?

    Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying someone roaming around Japan with two swords, looking to hone his skill against other swordsman, but some who lives and walks the talk as best he could in a modern world?

    I would call that person a Modern Samurai.
    Last edited by Mekugi; 4th February 2004 at 14:41.

  4. #4
    RayCorrea Guest

    Default Re: Re: What about samurai lineage...

    Originally posted by Mekugi


    Say a persons great, great, great grandfather was in the Civil War and fought on the side of the Confederacy. They join the Army. Does that make a person a Confederate soldier?

    See "Part 1".

    That's a good point but the confederacy wasn't a class, it was a political party.

    Although I'm sure we can dig up more than a few southerners who would argue that.

    I do see your point though.

    I wonder what the modern Japanese think?

    Do they make any distinction between an average Japanese person and one who traces his lineage to some Daimyo or Emperor?

    Like the British family and it's lineage today?

    Please fordgive my ignorance if my questions sound stupid. Not being Japanese, I have no knowledge of their way of thinking or customs.

    Thanks for your patience.

  5. #5
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    Default

    My wife is Japanese, but no expert.

    She tells me that looking up one's family tree is not the fun thing that Westerners take it as.

    In the past, employers would research the prospective workers heritage before making an offer of employment. To stop this, the Government made it more difficult to research such things unless it was for your own family. It used to be an extension of the Old Boy network, where certain companies would select their employees according to whichever University the Board Members had all attended.

    As has been mentioned previously, the chances of you being even slightly related to anything other than a farmer are very small. Therefore, most people don't go looking.

    This is what she told me.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  6. #6
    Gene Williams Guest

    Default Re: Re: Re: What about samurai lineage...

    Originally posted by RayCorrea
    That's a good point but the confederacy wasn't a class, it was a political party.

    Although I'm sure we can dig up more than a few southerners who would argue that.

    I do see your point though.

    I wonder what the modern Japanese think?

    Do they make any distinction between an average Japanese person and one who traces his lineage to some Daimyo or Emperor?

    Like the British family and it's lineage today?

    Please fordgive my ignorance if my questions sound stupid. Not being Japanese, I have no knowledge of their way of thinking or customs.

    Thanks for your patience.
    The Confederacy was NOT a political party. It was an independent nation with a constitution, a congress, a President and VP, defined national boundaries,its own currency, a flag (which is still misunderstood and whined about) and a pretty damned good army which actually won more battles than it lost and inflicted far heavier casualtuies on the enemy than the enemy on them. They were out-numbered and just didn't have the resources to win that war, despite better military leadership.

  7. #7
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    Default

    In my experience here in Tokyo, those people who wander around talking about their samurai heritage quickly earn either one of two labels:

    Jerk

    or

    Nutcase
    Daniel Madar

  8. #8
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    Default Addendum

    Part 5:
    Common personality traits considered those of a "warrior" or "modern samurai" often include some of the following:
    1. Sense of honor and strong moral code
    2. Sense of obligation to other people and institutions
    3. Fighting for what one believes in, even against hopeless odds
    4. Following a chosen path in life that adheres to our ideals, regardless of the sacrifices and obstacles
    5. Perserverance in any endeavor to achieve an objective or sustain a way of life
    6. Sense of humility and humble desire to learn more and improve in any skill or personal trait
    etc., etc.

    Permission is hereby granted to those who identify with any or all of these traits, and who are fond of using such words as "bushido" and "Modern Samurai," to hereafter refer to themselves as an "unwavering idealist" to be more in keeping with the modern western culture and numerous individuals in Western history who also exemplified these traits, and less in keeping with a fictitious Hollywoodized Japanese culture......Jaggoff.
    Greg Ellis
    I like autumn best of all, because its tone is mellower, its colors are richer and it is tinged with a little sorrow. Its golden richness speaks not of the innocence of spring, nor the power of summer, but of the mellowness and kindly wisdom of approaching age. It knows the limitations of life and it is content.

  9. #9
    Mekugi Guest

    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: What about samurai lineage...

    Thank you Gene.

    Originally posted by Gene Williams
    The Confederacy was NOT a political party. It was an independent nation with a constitution, a congress, a President and VP, defined national boundaries,its own currency, a flag (which is still misunderstood and whined about) and a pretty damned good army which actually won more battles than it lost and inflicted far heavier casualtuies on the enemy than the enemy on them. They were out-numbered and just didn't have the resources to win that war, despite better military leadership.

  10. #10
    Mekugi Guest

    Default Re: Addendum

    YEAH BABY! That was outstanding.
    Originally posted by gmellis
    Part 5:
    Common personality traits considered those of a "warrior" or "modern samurai" often include some of the following:
    1. Sense of honor and strong moral code
    2. Sense of obligation to other people and institutions
    3. Fighting for what one believes in, even against hopeless odds
    4. Following a chosen path in life that adheres to our ideals, regardless of the sacrifices and obstacles
    5. Perserverance in any endeavor to achieve an objective or sustain a way of life
    6. Sense of humility and humble desire to learn more and improve in any skill or personal trait
    etc., etc.

    Permission is hereby granted to those who identify with any or all of these traits, and who are fond of using such words as "bushido" and "Modern Samurai," to hereafter refer to themselves as an "unwavering idealist" to be more in keeping with the modern western culture and numerous individuals in Western history who also exemplified these traits, and less in keeping with a fictitious Hollywoodized Japanese culture......Jaggoff.

  11. #11
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    Russ --

    You forgot the samurai path to success -- suck up, piss down.

    Gene --

    The most ludicrous thing I saw after 9/11 was all those Southern senators singing "Battle Hymn of the Republic." What's next, Georgia bulldozing a road to the coast, and calling it the William T. Sherman Expressway?

  12. #12
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    Default

    What would you call a person who could trace his samurai lineage back past the Meiji restoration?

    And say that person lived by a strict martial code?
    .................................

    Well I can possibly speak for one family. Names Tachibana. Traceable well back. Fief that stretched from Fukuoka to Kumamoto. Intermarried with the Hosokawa Clan. Castle gone but they have a museum of their belongings and a warehouse full of stuff to make the displays interchangeable. Scrolls documents galore. They even had Genji's white flag (bit yellow now).

    Two retainers had famous Ryuha, Hosokawa No Kyogen etc.etc. without doubt living testimony of their class and still respectable well to do people. Their Butsudan is not a small family alter but an actual roomful of ancestors.

    I could ramble on but if you talk to the present 17th generation descendant he will tell you clearly, "My family 'used to be' Samurai".

    Hyakutake Colin
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Joseph Svinth

    Gene --

    The most ludicrous thing I saw after 9/11 was all those Southern senators singing "Battle Hymn of the Republic." What's next, Georgia bulldozing a road to the coast, and calling it the William T. Sherman Expressway?
    Are you serious?? You think it's ridiculous that United States Senators sang a song from a war that occured 139 years ago? A song that was written to support the Union that we have now, sure, but with very general uplifting lyrics? You think it's ludicrous that UNITED STATES SENATORS from a REGION that once participated in a failed rebellion sang a song from that century and a half year old rebellion in a time of national upheaval?

    Tell me damn straight: Are we really all that different? Does regional pride like this have any redeeming or positive impact on us as a people? I thought that if you could pull it off anywhere, America would be the place that would avoid an 'us vs. them' mentality.

    An honest question- Do all of you really believe that that war was more about states rights than slavery?



    Sorry for the rant and the off topic.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Back on topic- My family used to be vikings, it doesn't make me one.
    As ren said, the operative phrase being "used to be".
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  15. #15
    Tex Guest

    Default

    Yea....My Dad is a pilot....so does that make me one too?

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