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Thread: Introduction

  1. #31
    shemp Guest

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    your doing it wrong then .




    Quote Originally Posted by paradoxbox
    Kyusho work on people who are tensed up as well but most of us lack the kind of conditioning to make it work on anyone other than a relaxed opponent. In a certain school of ninpo tearing the bark off of trees was used in old times to condition the fingertips and imrpove gripping strength. Nowadays we have those little horseshoe shaped workout machines to increase forearm and grip strength.

    A man with very large tensed muscles can still be hurt by kyushojutsu if you have the hand strength to reach the pressure point in the first place.

    A study or familiarisation of gyokko ryuu kosshijutsu might be worthwhile to anyone interested in kyushojutsu.

  2. #32
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    Have you ever tried kyusho on someone in a Mixed Martial Arts fight while they are in the ring? Good luck. I'm sorry but you are sorely mistaken if you think you can use pressure points to knock someone down when they're tensed up and expecting it unless your hands are conditioned for it.

    I don't think pressure points were ever a 'magic' art that could be used by even weaklings to overcome extremely strong opponents. Some strikes to some areas work no matter if there is strength or not, like hitting the temple or back of the skull or testicles. But I believe if you don't have the hand conditioning to go along with the training in how to hit the points, your ability to use kyushojutsu properly is only 50% at best.

    But I'm not sure what to say if you believe you can hit someone in the nipple when they have pectorals of steel and are tensed up and ready to hit you, and expect it to have much of an effect. It takes a lot of hand conditioning to make most pressure points work on strong and ready people.

    If you think you can do this without having very strong hands then go try it in reality on people who are ready for you to do it. There are more than enough people out there who will take the challenge and they will win it every time, I'll put money on that bet. A hit anywhere except the temple, back of the skull or the jewels isn't going to do much to anyone ready for it. Maybe if you break something in the strike that'll do it it. Are your fingers strong enough to break bones?

    Don't believe me if you want, that's fine, but anyone expecting it and with higher pain threshold is going to brush it off like nothing. This is from my experience and the experience of many other people who have used kyusho jutsu with me in randori during training, not cooperating uke. Kyusho work extremely well on almost everyone who isn't expecting it.
    Last edited by paradoxbox; 19th October 2005 at 04:52.
    Cory Burke
    ゴゴゴ!

  3. #33
    Mukeido Guest

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    Have you ever tried kyusho on someone in a Mixed Martial Arts fight while they are in the ring? Good luck. I'm sorry but you are sorely mistaken if you think you can use pressure points to knock someone down when they're tensed up and expecting it unless your hands are conditioned for it.

    I don't think pressure points were ever a 'magic' art that could be used by even weaklings to overcome extremely strong opponents. Some strikes to some areas work no matter if there is strength or not, like hitting the temple or back of the skull or testicles. But I believe if you don't have the hand conditioning to go along with the training in how to hit the points, your ability to use kyushojutsu properly is only 50% at best.

    But I'm not sure what to say if you believe you can hit someone in the nipple when they have pectorals of steel and are tensed up and ready to hit you, and expect it to have much of an effect. It takes a lot of hand conditioning to make most pressure points work on strong and ready people.

    If you think you can do this without having very strong hands then go try it in reality on people who are ready for you to do it. There are more than enough people out there who will take the challenge and they will win it every time, I'll put money on that bet. A hit anywhere except the temple, back of the skull or the jewels isn't going to do much to anyone ready for it. Maybe if you break something in the strike that'll do it it. Are your fingers strong enough to break bones?

    Don't believe me if you want, that's fine, but anyone expecting it and with higher pain threshold is going to brush it off like nothing. This is from my experience and the experience of many other people who have used kyusho jutsu with me in randori during training, not cooperating uke. Kyusho work extremely well on almost everyone who isn't expecting it.
    Here here. I agree 100%. Not to mention attempting to apply pressure point strikes during an altercation with an oversized Maori hell-bent on bashing your brains out. Good stuff for the movies - leave it all to Batman!

  4. #34
    shemp Guest

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    first I don't do tournaments they have rules . I have knock out people in street fights using kyusho .it works better then just hitting a person anywhere .
    but don't use it , fine with me . I have I know the setup point the knockout point and I use Aiki jitsu on joints .
    tensed up means it easy
    as for weakling ? Karate is to get the maximum from the minimum efforts .
    oh well . your right , you should not bother with points . you probably don't think acupuncture works either .



    Quote Originally Posted by paradoxbox


    Have you ever tried kyusho on someone in a Mixed Martial Arts fight while they are in the ring? Good luck. I'm sorry but you are sorely mistaken if you think you can use pressure points to knock someone down when they're tensed up and expecting it unless your hands are conditioned for it.

    I don't think pressure points were ever a 'magic' art that could be used by even weaklings to overcome extremely strong opponents. Some strikes to some areas work no matter if there is strength or not, like hitting the temple or back of the skull or testicles. But I believe if you don't have the hand conditioning to go along with the training in how to hit the points, your ability to use kyushojutsu properly is only 50% at best.

    But I'm not sure what to say if you believe you can hit someone in the nipple when they have pectorals of steel and are tensed up and ready to hit you, and expect it to have much of an effect. It takes a lot of hand conditioning to make most pressure points work on strong and ready people.

    If you think you can do this without having very strong hands then go try it in reality on people who are ready for you to do it. There are more than enough people out there who will take the challenge and they will win it every time, I'll put money on that bet. A hit anywhere except the temple, back of the skull or the jewels isn't going to do much to anyone ready for it. Maybe if you break something in the strike that'll do it it. Are your fingers strong enough to break bones?

    Don't believe me if you want, that's fine, but anyone expecting it and with higher pain threshold is going to brush it off like nothing. This is from my experience and the experience of many other people who have used kyusho jutsu with me in randori during training, not cooperating uke. Kyusho work extremely well on almost everyone who isn't expecting it.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by shemp
    first I don't do tournaments they have rules . I have knock out people in street fights using kyusho .it works better then just hitting a person anywhere .
    but don't use it , fine with me . I have I know the setup point the knockout point and I use Aiki jitsu on joints .
    tensed up means it easy
    as for weakling ? Karate is to get the maximum from the minimum efforts .
    oh well . your right , you should not bother with points . you probably don't think acupuncture works either .
    You are preaching to the choir. In the organization I'm in, we study gyokko ryu kosshijutsu, an art based upon attacking pressure points and weak areas of the body. But I don't have unrealistic expectations. Out in the real world you may or may not encounter people as strong as mixed martial artist fighters, and you may or may not fight against tense or non-tense people. The idea is you should be able to knock almost all of them down and you can't safely do that without hand conditioning.
    Cory Burke
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  6. #36
    shemp Guest

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    sorry for preaching to the choir but I thought this was "it doesn't work thread "
    I have been knocked out by a first punch that landed on the eye brow and an inch above , a good knock out point , a friend in a temporally paralyzed an appoints arm temporally by hitting pericardium 6 and the point just inside the shoulder at the ball of the arm socket .
















    Quote Originally Posted by paradoxbox
    You are preaching to the choir. In the organization I'm in, we study gyokko ryu kosshijutsu, an art based upon attacking pressure points and weak areas of the body. But I don't have unrealistic expectations. Out in the real world you may or may not encounter people as strong as mixed martial artist fighters, and you may or may not fight against tense or non-tense people. The idea is you should be able to knock almost all of them down and you can't safely do that without hand conditioning.

  7. #37
    Finny Guest

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    Please follow the rules you agreed to when joining e-budo, Shemp, and attach your full real name to all of your posts - this can be easily accomplished by putting your name in your signature line.

    I also disagree with you - aiming a punch at "the eyebrow and an inch above" may sound good, but applying that in real life, against someone moving their head is not an easy task. Also, like some others said, it may not work on some people (I've been hit just about everywhere on my face/head - hard, and never been knocked out, for some reason).

    While obviously (IMO), there are some basic kyusho to aim for in a fight (solar plexus, temple, point of jaw, kidneys, liver etc...), the point that they are not always effective is very valid:

    1. In a fight, it is not always possible to accurately attack a certain point.

    2. One may miss

    3. One's opponent may simply be impervious to the particular attack

    4. One's opponent may have a sufficiently high pain threshold to be able to ignore your attack.

    I know the setup point the knockout point and I use Aiki jitsu on joints .
    tensed up means it easy
    Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the "setup point"? and the "knockout point"?

    And how can you use "aiki jitsu" on joints?

  8. #38
    shemp Guest

    Default white guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Finny
    Please follow the rules you agreed to when joining e-budo, Shemp, and attach your full real name to all of your posts - this can be easily accomplished by putting your name in your signature line.
    {I thought it posted my name automatically .how do I post it ?}
    I also disagree with you - aiming a punch at "the eyebrow and an inch above" may sound good, but applying that in real life, against someone moving their head is not an easy task. Also, like some others said, it may not work on some people (I've been hit just about everywhere on my face/head - hard, and never been knocked out, for some reason).???{
    are you serious ? first most all Kata's show you how to hit the targets , next you never look for anything but opportunity . next it works on all but 1% of males and not all females . the part about your head ? ya sure , let me have a shot at your temple . , look don't use kyusho , Its OK with me , but your tell me "it doesnt work " sorry I know better .}

    While obviously (IMO), there are some basic kyusho to aim for in a fight (solar plexus, temple, point of jaw, kidneys, liver etc...), the point that they are not always effective is very valid:

    1. In a fight, it is not always possible to accurately attack a certain point.

    2. One may miss

    3. One's opponent may simply be impervious to the particular attack

    4. One's opponent may have a sufficiently high pain threshold to be able to ignore your attack.



    Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the "setup point"? and the "knockout point"?
    {NO I don't think I will .}
    And how can you use "aikijitsu" on joints?
    as for Aikijitsu ? wow . no , you know I wont do that either . you could look up Aiki jistsu a good tape would be one of Miquel Ibarra, a similar Chines art you'd look up Chi Na .

    I'm not your sensei and I never give out information to people that start out calling me a lire , as for your 3
    . and 4. impervious to an attack , ?? what ? LOL ya OK I guess use kryptonite ?
    high pain threshold ? sure . using points under the ear on both sides at once in and up will take down a guy on meth . this has been proved by police .
    [if done correctly }

  9. #39
    Finny Guest

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    as for Aikijitsu ? wow . no , you know I wont do that either . you could look up Aiki jistsu a good tape would be one of Miquel Ibarra, a similar Chines art you'd look up Chi Na
    OK - I know what Aiki jujutsu is, and what Aiki Jutsu is, I just didn't get the connection with "applying aiki jitsu to a joint". Perhaps the Chinese art you mean is Shuai Chiao? Chin na is not an art, it is a term which refers to the grappling or joint locking techniques in all chinese martial arts.

    I'm not your sensei and I never give out information to people that start out calling me a lire
    I didn't call you a lire (or even a liar) - I simply disagreed with you.

    are you serious ? first most all Kata's show you how to hit the targets , next you never look for anything but opportunity . next it works on all but 1% of males and not all females . the part about your head ? ya sure , let me have a shot at your temple
    Works on all but 1% of males and not all females? Where did you get those statistics? What a load of rubbish.

    The part about my head? Yes I'm serious. I didn't say I enjoy being hit in the head, but I've boxed since I was 8 or 9, I've been hit just about everywhere on my head (hard - I'm a heavyweight, so I spar/fight other heavyweights) and I've never been knocked out. Concussed, yes, but not knocked out. You want a shot at my temple? I'll trade you - you can hit my temple, then I'll hit your jaw. We'll see who goes down first.

    look don't use kyusho , Its OK with me , but your tell me "it doesnt work " sorry I know better
    I didn't say I dont use kyusho or that they don't work, I said they don't always work, and are often difficult/impossible to hit accurately.

    high pain threshold ? sure . using points under the ear on both sides at once in and up will take down a guy on meth . this has been proved by police .
    [if done correctly }
    Hahaha - what a load of crap. Can you provide any sources to back up this idea that police have 'proved' that these points always work on "guys on meth"?? How do the police get to these points while fighting/restraining a guy on meth?

    I thought it posted my name automatically .how do I post it ?
    Of course you can simply write it underneath each post you write, but it's easier to attach it to your signature. Just go to "User CP", then write it under "signature".
    Last edited by Finny; 25th October 2005 at 04:29.

  10. #40
    shemp Guest

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    the load of crap comes from law enforcement use that techniquee .

    you say you know Aikjisu? but its all against the joints wrest mostly .

    but like I said , stay away from kyusho you just don't get it . you whine "you cant hit those points in a fight " bull !!!! , you don't use your finger you use everything fro fist to elbow like a bat hitting most like L5 to St5 .
    I like guys like you , you cant figure it out so you declare it useless . OK .
    you cant do it so no one can well I have and to me thats all that matters .

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by shemp
    the load of crap comes from law enforcement use that techniquee .

    you say you know Aikjisu? but its all against the joints wrest mostly .

    but like I said , stay away from kyusho you just don't get it . you whine "you cant hit those points in a fight " bull !!!! , you don't use your finger you use everything fro fist to elbow like a bat hitting most like L5 to St5 .
    I like guys like you , you cant figure it out so you declare it useless . OK .
    you cant do it so no one can well I have and to me thats all that matters .
    I hate to say this, but I actually can't take your advice. I can't understand what you're saying. Would you do me a favor and clean that up a bit so it's comprehensible?
    (You're getting treated like a troll here. One of the reasons why may be that almost every troll I've ever seen has had trouble with spelling and grammar. We try to be forgiving, but if someone starts yelling at us with poor grammar and diction, they tend to get stereotyped. )

    I should point out that the one thing I understood from this post, that LEOs use these techniques, may in fact militate against the rest of our using it.
    Police have the power of the radio, and usually come in groups, plus access to lethal force if needed (and a willingness to put the boot in if resisted). This means that criminals actually resist them less. So, a technique that works for a cop may NOT work for me simply because the person I'm trying to grab or strike isn't giving me that psychological advantage. Cops don't realize it, but the uniform really helps against almost everyone. (Except psychotics, druggies, the royally p.o.ed, and the really drunk, who feel very little anyway, so... Plus, their training is to arrest, mine is not.

    Now, I do and have used kyusho jutsu myself, and there are several tricks to it, the first and foremost of them being never to rely on it. Restraining someone, they can almost always escape if they're willing to sacrifice a joint. You often need to focus their attention on the pain verbally and keep it there. As for striking points, my experience has been that you put them on top of a really good strike. It's like ice cream, whipped cream and a cherry don't do much to enhance the flavor if the ice cream sucks. With good ice cream, the effect's wonderful.
    Similarly, if someone moves while you're striking, you can really have trouble hitting a specific spot. The best way to do it involves grabbing first, which vastly increases your targeting capabilities, and then hitting where you want to hit. The primary grab tends not to be precisely targetable, however.
    I often use kyusho jutsu to wear someone down with pain, but that's in randori. In a real fight, you don't have the time.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  12. #42
    shemp Guest

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    you cant understand ? then thats great , we'll leave it at that .

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Johnson
    I hate to say this, but I actually can't take your advice. I can't understand what you're saying. Would you do me a favor and clean that up a bit so it's comprehensible?
    (You're getting treated like a troll here. One of the reasons why may be that almost every troll I've ever seen has had trouble with spelling and grammar. We try to be forgiving, but if someone starts yelling at us with poor grammar and diction, they tend to get stereotyped. )

    I should point out that the one thing I understood from this post, that LEOs use these techniques, may in fact militate against the rest of our using it.
    Police have the power of the radio, and usually come in groups, plus access to lethal force if needed (and a willingness to put the boot in if resisted). This means that criminals actually resist them less. So, a technique that works for a cop may NOT work for me simply because the person I'm trying to grab or strike isn't giving me that psychological advantage. Cops don't realize it, but the uniform really helps against almost everyone. (Except psychotics, druggies, the royally p.o.ed, and the really drunk, who feel very little anyway, so... Plus, their training is to arrest, mine is not.

    Now, I do and have used kyusho jutsu myself, and there are several tricks to it, the first and foremost of them being never to rely on it. Restraining someone, they can almost always escape if they're willing to sacrifice a joint. You often need to focus their attention on the pain verbally and keep it there. As for striking points, my experience has been that you put them on top of a really good strike. It's like ice cream, whipped cream and a cherry don't do much to enhance the flavor if the ice cream sucks. With good ice cream, the effect's wonderful.
    Similarly, if someone moves while you're striking, you can really have trouble hitting a specific spot. The best way to do it involves grabbing first, which vastly increases your targeting capabilities, and then hitting where you want to hit. The primary grab tends not to be precisely targetable, however.
    I often use kyusho jutsu to wear someone down with pain, but that's in randori. In a real fight, you don't have the time.

  13. #43
    Finny Guest

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    No Shemp - It's you who doesn't understand.

    By the way, what style of 'Aikjisu' (sic) do you train?

    stay away from kyusho you just don't get it . you whine "you cant hit those points in a fight " bull !!!! , you don't use your finger you use everything fro fist to elbow like a bat hitting most like L5 to St5 .
    I like guys like you , you cant figure it out so you declare it useless . OK .
    you cant do it so no one can
    You're an idiot Shemp. Maybe you should re-read my post. I said I can and do use them, but they are not the be-all and end-all of fighting.

    I never declared it useless (although I guess I have by now called you a 'lire' hahaha)

    And I never said you can't hit those points - I said you can't ALWAYS hit those points ACCURATELY.

    Once again - you are a certifiable idiot. Have fun in E-Budo hell when you get there...

  14. #44
    Finny Guest

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    By the way, I just checked your profile - you train in karate and use 'aiki jitsu' on joints?

    What does 'aiki jitsu' have to do with karate?

    And for a 58 year old, your spelling, grammar and writing in general is appalling.

  15. #45
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    It's not that I can't understand your wisdom, you say you have some, and I'm willing to believe you.
    The problem is that you aren't good at communicating it. So, can we try typing your post up on word or something that has spellcheck, grammar check, etc, and then cutting and pasting? It would really help you, which is what I'm trying to point out.

    All of us have our views on kyusho jutsu. That's fine. Yours aren't actually getting judged on their merits at this point. They may have some, but your lack of communicative skills gets in the way of our being able to judge them on the merits.

    So, for your own benefit, try my suggestion.

    Oh, and Shemp? One thing that you agreed to when you signed up was to put your full name at the bottom of the posts. It's easy to do, just go to user cp and add your name to your signature. The mods get pretty snarky about it, so I figure I'd better warn you before they decide to ban you or delete your account. It's part of E-budo rules, and is strictly enforced, 'k?
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

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