what do you think of pressure points

[Scott Rogers]

Lets start this topic off by finding out what you think of pressure points(for them or against them) and why.

[Gene Williams]

I think that everyone should know the major ones, get proficient at applying two or three of the most practical ones, and remember that in combat they are very difficult to apply properly. I use the ulnar nerve, the carotid sinus, and the insides of the knees, plus a couple of chokes and strangles. That's it. All that Dillman stuff is nonsense. I am not counting joint locks as pressure points, although they do work on them.

[Old Dragon]

To a certain extent I agree with you Gene. I remember learning all the little points on a body and while we were standing there the insturctor could certainly make the pain..........

Now reality........... find a pressure point...... and punch the crap outta it. hahahhaha


I also like the inside of the knees....... the inside of the thigh is a good one also....

an example of "punch the crap outta it" would be the outside of the thigh, it has a point where if you use your knuckle and search its like a funny bone effect... throws you a moment....... my solution to the real life crisis of .."excuse me, would you stand still while I find your pressure point" is to round house kick with the shin.. just hit the whole area.......... they still buckle... hehehehhehehehehehehhehe


Mike O'Leary.

[fOOZ]

I haven't had any experience in practical application of pressure points, however, in training i've found the pressure points to have incredible stopping power on me, when done by people with experience.

Doing punching drills, where I punch left right left right, while walking forward, and recieving blocks to pressure points around the bottom of the elbow area, after a few of those from someone good at it, I can barely lift my arms.. I don't know how they would actually work in a real situation though, but I thought I'd just add that the stopping power of them can be very, very good.

-Grant Williams

[StanLee]

Personally, I have not have much, if any, experience on pressure points.

So far, the other ebudo members have suggested various points to attack. Is there a diagram available with some of the major pressure points?

If I knew where they were, I may try and incorporate them into my own practice.

[MarkF]

It is imprecise at best, and not easily used to good effect on many people. Nerve bundles, or ganglia, are like popcorn, they differ at least as much as do people with regard to something as disimilar as a person's height or weight, to some who just do not react at all, and everything inbetween.

It doesn't mean it is useless to know, but I would agree with Gene, in that only obvious places they exist should be the basis of learning. If one has a decent knowledge of physiology, some can perform the effects, whether by a strike or pressure or pressure by lock, on a few other areas, but generally, it is limited in scope.


Mark

[Blackwood]

I've had limited exposure, mostly through a Godan who I respect very much. He will take the time to do some two step drills, ending them with a 'free' technique. He has demonstrated a number of amazing results with a simple tap on various parts. Usually he will demonstrate one point with each of our sessions, (five minutes here and there between activities). One session lasted all of five seconds, he simple walked up and looked at me and then reached out with his big toe and tapped me. The pain was immediate, gone in seconds, but greatly increased my understanding.

You know you are a Martial Artist when someone executes a technique on you, causes pain, and your immediate reaction is not 'Ow!' but "How'd you do that?"

[Budoka 34]

I've been exposed to two different types of "pressure points".
The ones that correspond with anatomical structures such as nerve bundles, tendon or ligament roots etc, and the non-anatomical Ki/Chi (Meridian based) points.

From my experience they both have merit.

My instructor focuses on the anatomical "pain" points and they seem to be very effective on most people even during high adrenal responses(fighting).

The true kyusho points like GB20, tripleburners, etc, seem to take more practice and understanding. I've been put on the ground by Troy Price several times with just a few taps to the correct points.

I've felt and seen some of the Danzan Ryu guys do some amazing knockdowns with sticky hands point strikes so I believe there is something to it.

IMHO, for the Japanese/Okinawan arts Vince Morris Sensei has some of the best open source materials I've seen.

[Leslie]

Hello, "pressure points" are quite dangerous and need to be used with caution. Being involved in chinese medicine, I have found that reactions to these strikes can be very subtle initially, but the effects may have serious consequences down the line. If one is to strike at the carotid sinus, be aware that death can be the result, perhaps not immediately (if struck lightly), but later, the cumulative cycles of qi through this area may cause i.e. stroke, cardiac arhymthmia, or other such problems. If you do this for fun, then make sure you are not on the receiving end! Just my opinion. Leslie M. Graham, D.C., L.Ac.

[Scott Rogers]

Everyone brings up excellent points. I will try to address some of them. One pressure points can be quite dangerous and should never be used without an experienced instructor nearby. The points on the arms and legs can be struck with moderate force in practice but, the head and neck points should only be indicated. Yes I have done many K.O.s in demonstration, but in my school and during training they are very infrequent. It usually just takes a light tap to show the effectiveness of the technique, you do not need to always be picking people up off the floor. The taps are much lighter than the contact received during regular sparring and while there is always some chance of injury, martial arts is still a contact related activity where proper leanring and safety must be balanced. To say that Dillmans stuff is crap is just untrue and sounds like more of a personal attack. I agree that they way in which he applies and demonstrates his techniques is unrealistic but the effects are real. It is our job as martial artists to take the skill whcih we can use and apply them as realistically as possible. As far as accuracy, I have an article coming out in the march issue of TKD times which addreses this question. Alot of pressure point enthusiasts try to find these small and remote points and hit them in training, I agree that this is next to impossible. On the other hand there are several spots in the body where there are point clusters that contain as many as 3 or 4 active (sensitive) points in very close proximity. These are the areas that we should be learning to attack. With a little proper training most individuals willfind that they can access these points. Another way to improve your accuracy is to hold the target still by mens of a joint lock or manipulation. If your oppponent is in a position that he cannot move or block your technique, than you should easily be able to dispatch him on a well placed pressure point strike.

[Scott Rogers]

Another point is that there are many pressure points that only work on certain individuals. There are also many more such as cv22 at the base of the throat that work on everybody. My philosophy is to work only with the points that work on everyone I come in contact with as in a ral fight you will not know beforehand which points your opponent will feel. I also believe in giving myself room for error in my strikin. By this I mean that instead of apllying a shuto chop to the stomach 9 carotid oint, I would use my whole forearm increasing the chances that I will hit it effectively.

[Scott Rogers]

Arm destructions should be a key element to anybody invovled with pressure points. In an attack whether it is a grab, push, or a punch the attackers arms are the first thing coming at you. Striking the closest target makes the most sense. Also a well placed arm strike deadening the arm serves two purposes. One it may end the altercation on the spot, and two, many of the arm points if struck correctly will weaken the more sensitive points of the head and neck for a K.O.
Bone pressure to a rib while painful would not be considered a presssure point strike unless it was on a specific point. The definition of a kyushojutus pressure point is: A place where pain can be entered directly into the nerve. If you are just causing pain, what if the person is trained to ignore pain or just plain intoxicated. Pressure points done properly will act on the nervous system and pain is not the reason for the effect. If I hit your forearm on a point called Large Intesinte 10 (radial nerve) which is the muscular bulge below the elbow, you may scream in pain and your arm would go numb. If I struck a drug adict on this point he may not feel the pain, but his arm woud still cease to function

[John Lindsey]

Just to note to everyone here: you have a whole forum to use. If you have a question, please post it as a new message.

[aiki_uke]

And besides from all of the other fun things you can do w/ preasure points, you can always have fun showing them off to your friends. (expesialy the ones who have no experience in the MA's)

[Gene Williams]

Again, it is my view (from some experience) that pressure points are a bit overrated as a street combat weapon. They work as come-alongs and to an extent in grappling, however, they are difficult to apply against a resisting opponent or against one who is trying to knock your head off or tackle you. Dillman has been mentioned yet again ( there are several threads on here that discuss Dillman, but to save yourself time, look up charlatan in the dictionary).