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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Okinawa Training

    Originally posted by ryujikan

    Things have changed greatly since Isao took over.
    Hello Frank,

    Would that be Kise Sensei's son?

    Thanks for your insight on the Pinans,

    Larry
    Larry Kientz
    “When you train you have to devote yourself to karate do… You must not only learn body movements but also research and study the art itself.” - Choshin Chibana

  2. #17
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    Default Okinawa Training

    Hi Larry,

    Yes, That would be Isao Kise. Check out this link and look at the letter by James Coffman concerning his visit to Okinawa this past November and how he was received by the Kise Association.

    www.smoka-usa.com

    Your welcome on the Pinans. Just my thought not the gospel by any means.

    Sincerely,
    Frank D. Williams, PhD

  3. #18
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    Default

    Frank,

    I thought he was, we have a young marine (very knowledgeable) in our dojo that trained at Kise’s dojo while stationed there in the late 1990’s. He did say that Kise’s son did most of the teaching.

    About Mr. Coffman’s trip to Okinawa, that’s unfortunate that he and his student traveled that far to be treated that way.

    Have you ever eaten at Mos Burgers there?
    Larry Kientz
    “When you train you have to devote yourself to karate do… You must not only learn body movements but also research and study the art itself.” - Choshin Chibana

  4. #19
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    Default

    Hi Larry,

    The Marine is absolutely right. Isao Kise teaches mostly sport karate and kata far removed from original Matsumura Shorin Ryu taught by Hohan Soken. The association changed its name last year to Matsumura Shorin Ryu but that is hardly what they teach.

    Isao was barred from teaching on the base last time I was here because he assaulted a student in the kid's class on Camp Foster. The main dojo is in shambles and I used to take Isao Sensei soup, rice, and beer just about every time I visited the dojo because Master Kise did not give him enough money to support himself with. It is not unusual for Master and Isao to go out and spend $200-$300 a night drinking in the local bars. That's seems like a poor investment of all the promotion money the Americans are sending over here.

    Most of the senior American and Okinawan black belts have left Fusei Kise and Isao over the past 5-10 years due to outrageous promotion fees (karate, kobudo, and tuite all tested separately now), politics, and questionable promotion practices not to mention the fact the Fusei Kise and his son Isao can hardly stand to be in the same room together and this brings tension to everyone that trains at the main dojo.

    The Marines training on base get substandard training by far since black belts are promoted in 1 year or less depending on rotation dates. When the Master feels he needs some money he will promote 3-4 sandans and yondans. My ex-wife didn't train for 5 years and he promoted her to Yondan and gave her a Renshi certificate before she left Okinawa in 2001 because she was half Japanese and did some translations for him.

    I have seen past Kise Association Presidents like Ron Lindsey, Mike Hancock, Jerry Partain, and others teachers like Steve Warren maligned by Master Kise and Isao after they had served them for 20+ years. It happened to me this past August almost identical to James Coffman. When Mike Hancock heard about it he wrote that it was almost word for word how he was treated when he stopped sending promotion money to Okinawa.

    Money is KING in Okinawa now and as the Masters age and worry about how they will live once they stop teaching they seek out those that are willing to pay for promotions but unwilling to train and earn them. Many visitors come over here from different styles and leave as 7th Dans in Kenshinkan Shorin Ryu without the knowledge or ability to perform one kata in the system. It is pitiful and outrageous at the same time.

    I have eaten a MOS burger and just about every hole in the wall soba house over here in 13 years on island. The food is good and if you find the right teacher so is the karate.

    Who is the Marine at your school? I was here from 1982-1985, 1987-1993, and 1997-2000 before getting back here last August.

    Keep in touch.
    Your friend in Budo,
    Frank D. Williams, PhD
    President/Founder
    Universal Martial Arts Association
    www.universal-martial-arts.org
    www.havelockkarate.com

  5. #20
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    Default

    Well, we learn the Pinans in the lower kyu ranks, partially because they feed into the other katas so well. Senior Kyu ranks learn the bunkai associated with the Pinans. But I don't find the requirements that different than others, just a slightly different order.
    Our order is
    Niahanchi Shodan
    Pinans 1-5
    Niahanchi Nidan
    Itosu Bassai (Bassai Sho)
    Kusanku sho
    Niahanchi Sandan
    Matsumora Bassai (Bassai Dai)
    Kusanku dai
    Chinto
    (Black Belt)
    Go Ju Shi Ho

    Seikichi Iha
    Respectfully
    Mark W. Swarthout, Shodan

  6. #21
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    Default

    Hi Frank,

    I wish they had Okinawan soba here in Jersey, well, they already sell Orion here that's a start, I'm getting thirsty.

    The Marine's name is Shaun (I will PM his last name to you). He also trained with Nakasone Koichi (Shido Kan Shorin Ryu) and entered some full contact tournaments.

    Absolutely, Keep in touch.
    Larry Kientz
    “When you train you have to devote yourself to karate do… You must not only learn body movements but also research and study the art itself.” - Choshin Chibana

  7. #22
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    Hi Mark,

    We used to be part of Iha Sensei’s Association up until Fall 2002, when, my father-in-law decided to leave Sensei’s Association due to some issues.

    Where you at the NTS in 2001 for Sensei’s 25th anniversary in MI? That was a great time!

    Please tell Iha Sensei I said hello.

    Thank you very much,

    Larry
    Larry Kientz
    “When you train you have to devote yourself to karate do… You must not only learn body movements but also research and study the art itself.” - Choshin Chibana

  8. #23
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinman
    Hi Mark,

    Where you at the NTS in 2001 for Sensei’s 25th anniversary in MI? That was a great time!

    Please tell Iha Sensei I said hello.

    Thank you very much,

    Larry
    Larry, I can't believe I missed this one! Yes, I was at NTS in 2001 and even worked with your father-in-law in one of the breakout sessions. I don't know the issues involved in the split and don't care to. It is unfortunate that these sort of things happen so often in the martial arts world.

    He also trained with Nakasone Koichi (Shido Kan Shorin Ryu)
    Nakasone is just awesome! Just watching him is a learning experience! I've had the honor of working out with him on a half dozen ocassions. Haven't seen him in a year or so, I'm sure I'll see him next year for the 30th!
    Respectfully
    Mark W. Swarthout, Shodan

  9. #24
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    Default Kata Names

    Wow, now there is a name I have not heard in a while Butch Velez.............

    Well anyway the kata names are Kosokun Dai, Kosokun Sho and Shiho Kosokun.

    Lenny Jordan

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