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Thread: PP to cause defecation

  1. #16
    jaxonbrown Guest

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    Originally posted by Gene Williams
    I think some of the SanFrancisco dojo practice that technique
    yea, they can apply pp technique not with just their fingers!!!!

  2. #17
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    I guess in the big picture and I mean the really big picture if you have enough time or have an internal clock going in your head and you are constantly thinking about the diurnal flow of chi through the jing mai and hit a point (and by the way it could not be a local kidney point as they run up the front of the body) then you must be one bad hombre. Not that it cannot be done, but the expertise involved is so high. Then there is the question of energetics and penetration, the body does tense up under pressure and this pressure does not have to be that extreme for tension to happen there is thick muscle in the thoracic and lumbar regions. My personal guess at these points are bl-19 and 20 but from a shear medical opinion any blow to the Kidneys is going to hurt if you hit that are area hard enough. This is classic to boxing and many other pugilistic forms. I say keep it simple and don’t do anything that is going to land you in prison for excessive force.

    Gregory Castillian

  3. #18
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    Default PP to cause defecation

    Hi all,
    My first post so here goes

    Last weekend one of my students made an arrest... The guy was big, probably on something. 3 doses of the (pepper/ capsicum) spray and he was still aggressive.

    While he was busy busting one officer's face (20 year judo guy; not my student) the other (my student) put him in ushirojime (sleeper). It took a few seconds to bite. The guy went unconscious and was cuffed. He smelled bad. He had filled his pants.

    I have three points:

    1) Messing with pressure points against this guy would not have ended well.
    2) While everyone wants pressure points to be real, in the actual situation, you will need courage and simple but effective technique way more than you will need to know about a secret point 1" inside the anus or just above the kidneys to be struck in a circular motion at a certain time of day etc, etc.
    3) Did the guy lose 'a lot more than his lunch' because he was on something? did it happen because of the physical stress of the spray? Because of the strangle? Maybe the arresting officer accidentally touched the pressure points with his buttons and it just happened to be the exact right time of day? Maybe the guy just really needed to go!!

    I think these points have been made by others already, but hopefully this practical example will help.

    Regards,
    Peter Hills

  4. #19
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    Default PP to cause defection

    True, true if you don't have the skills then you should not try to deploy them. But the PP thing well to me it does not matter because PPs are part of a larger whole. Heck a choke hold is a pressure point, a blow to the side of the head with a PR24 could be a pressure point attack. For me most of the times I have had to effect an arrest or restrain someone my employment of PPs have never failed, but keep in mind said point(s) may have only been used to set up another type of movement/attack or to make another opening or to cause movement, PP are part of a whole skill set including when, how and where they (PPs) can be used, and it takes time to learn this stuff which most professional people don't have, and most of the time after you learn this stuff whatever was the driving force changes and thus the fighter changes, he/she does not fight anymore or for completely different reasons. I practice TCM traditional Chinese Medicine and there are many points that have certain contraindications, but some of those same point when used in different circumstances give great relief and in some cases save lives- pp are not a silver bullet- Amen for your boy effecting a good arrest and making it home for dinner unharmed.

  5. #20
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    During a seminar tour in 92, Charles Daniel, a high ranking Bujinkan Instructor took us through a number of pressure points, including one which he claimed causes the 'recipient' to defecate and urinate simultaneously. The point was on the front of the body and needed to be struck on a downward angle to have the 'desired' affect. No one volunteered for the demonstration so I don't know about it's true effectiveness, but I do agree with the above comments that specific PP striking is almost useless against an adrenalised opponent.

    Ellis Amdur wrote a short piece on using pressure point striking, I forget where he originally posted it but here's a copy:

    . I had a very close friend who was a judoka. A very sturdy man - five feet, eight inches, and one hundred eighty pounds - all muscle. We were drinking a few beers at his house, and I decided to f** with him (he was my friend, after all) and try something out at the same time. (Actually, we'd had quite a few beers.)

    I turned to him and said, "You know, thanks to my studies in koryu, judo appears to me to be mere kid's stuff, easily defeated."

    Y - "You shouldn't kid around like that, Ellis."

    E - "No, I mean it. I'm now completely invulnerable to being choked out."

    Y - "You may think that's funny, but you shouldn't say things like that! Some people could take it seriously and get pissed off."

    E -"Oh, you don't think I'm serious then. Go ahead and try to choke me, then."

    My friend had a hot temper, so we were good to go. To make it even easier for him, I put on my kiekko gi top, lay on my back, and he put on a cross-collar choke. "Go ahead," I said. "Sorry to hurt your feelings like this, but you should know the deficiencies of what you were studying all these years."

    He cinched on the choke and just as it was tightening, I took my knuckles and simultaneously pressed with all my might at the bottom of his floating ribs. (Note: The man was an expert, doing what he did best. He was relaxed. And drunk. Relaxed even more.) He shot completely over my head, and I shrugged his hands off my collar.

    The man was devastated. He sat there with his head in his hands, saying, "I don't believe it. You've destroyed my life. So this is kyushojutsu! My judo is nothing." (We were very drunk, actually).

    I had another beer, and had mercy on him. And I wanted to see if what my teacher (mentioned in the last post) was telling me the truth about kyusho and tsubo. I said, "Wanna try again."

    "What would be the point?" he said. He was really hurting. If this had been a couple hundred of years ago, he would have had to give me his dojo.

    E- "O.K. Listen. Listen to me, brother! This is important! Imagine you don't know me. You know that statue of your father downstairs? You don't know me and I came into your house and broke it. Your dead dad's statue in pieces all over the floor. Then I laughed at your mother when she saw it and began crying. Then I molested your sister! I did! Imagining all that? Good. Now, c'mon. Choke me now. Choke me now!"

    Remember the old Mickey Mouse cartoons, where there is a bull in a field, and he turns color and smoke comes out of his nose and ears. Y was sort of like that - anyway, something was coming out of his nose at that point - and he got the "mount" and cinched on the choke. HARD. I used my knuckles again. It was like pushing into corregated steel. I started to go out, and I thought, "What the f***. Let's take it all the way." I spread my arms wide, and hit him with my knuckles right in the floating rib points as hard as I possible could. Once. Twice. Fade to black.

    When I awoke, Y was pouring himself a beer with a relieved look on his face. "Thanks, Ellis. I was worried there for a second."

    E - "Was I out a long time?"

    Y - "Oh, no, not that. I mean, I was worried about my judo." END

    With respect
    Dean Whittle
    Sydney, Australia
    www.ninjutsuaustralia.com

  6. #21
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    I have had two instructors tell me you could make someone urinate by striking at a downward angle on the lower abdomen-both situations took place in a bar....
    Ok, you're in an environment where people pee regularily. The bladder is now a small balloon filled with urine.....the urine is kept in by a small muscle....someone punches downward creating pressure against the bladder....overcoming the small muscles ability to hold it back...and they call that KYUSHO. I call is basic physics.
    Duane Wolfe

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