Tang Soo Do is Karate?

[Chrono]

I'm taking Tang Soo Do now and I've often seen it refered to as karate. Was the Korean martial art taken from Okinawan Karate, or are they just similar?

Jon

[mlh1996]

Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do are Korean Karate. In fact, my old teacher's teacher, the late Ki Whang Kim, called it that more often than not. He learned his stuff from Toyama Kanken in Japan.

http://www.wkf.org/shudokan.html#toyama

Of course, since WWII, TSD/TKD has developed separately from Japanese Karate, so just like Japanese Karate is different from Okinawan Karate, there are differences between Korean Karate and Japanese.

The following link gives good insight into what Tae Kwon Do is, and is not.

http://www.sos.mtu.edu/husky/tkdhist.htm

[Budoka 34]

For some reason the Koreans feel the need to claim long histories for their arts, true or untrue.

My understanding is that Hwang Kee was a student of Shotokan before and during WWII, though I can't find anything in the Korean versions of history that states this.
I've trained with several Tang Soo Do instructors over the years and can't say I can see a difference except for the language.

[Budoka 34]

Mike,

My teachers teacher was a student of Park, Chull Hee and who was a student of Byung Yoon also a recognized Shihan of the Shudokan.

Do you by chance train in Shudokan?

[TommyK]

Greetings,

I study Korean Karate and Self-Defense. What we do is about 60% Korean Karate (Chi Do Kwan/Ji Do Kwan), 10% Kodokan Judo, 25% Tomiki and Yoshinkan Aikido techniques and the remainder, an eclectic mix of assorted techniques borrowed from many other arts. The Founder of our school was highly ranked in Korean karate, as well as, ranked in Kodokan Judo and Tomiki Aikido.

However, the bulk of what we do is Korean Karate and I have found out that the Founder of Chi Do Kwan had been highly ranked by Toyama sensei while in Japan and had also studied/absorbed Shotokan techniques and kata. Consequently, the Korean Karate aspect of what we do is, in reality, transplanted Japanese Karate.

I have found this information out through my own research and the documented scholarly work of academics, from various fields, who have also performed this research.

Much of this research I refer to has been unearthed by the likes of Dr. Dakin Burdick, Dr. Robert Dohrenwend, and Eric Madis, among others. Dr. Burdick explored this area in the pages of the Journal of Asian Martial Arts (JAMA) a few years ago. Dr. Dohrenwend wrote a fascinating article, in 3 parts, published in Dragon Times/Classic Fighting Arts within the last year. And, Mr. Madis published a most thorough monograph on the subject of Japanese ancestry in Korean Martial Arts in the Tom Green/Joe Svinth edited work "Martial Arts in the Modern World", published in 2003.

I cite these authors and their works which more than adequately document the transfer of Japanese Martial Arts to the Korean peninsular, during the period of Japanese occupation of Korea (1910-1945).

I appreciate the efforts of those Koreans who founded their Kwans at the end of WWII, and tried to pass on what they were taught from their Japanese sensei. However, the grafting of a 2,000 year old history on to their arts in the name of Korean nationalism is inappropriate. Taekwondo, Hwrangdo, Hapkido are, or at least were, in their origins transplanted Japanese martial arts.

This is not to say that these arts have no validity, rather they just lack a 2,000 year old pedigree. However, these Kwan arts do pass on a real, workable, self-defense set of systems, based on Japanese martial arts, just with a Korean spin.

That is why, what I practice, and continue to do so for the last 18 years, is termed Korean Karate. Those who are aware of the truth seek to share it. For those out there searching for the truth..look! It is out there on the net and in journals and magazines like those referenced.

Regards,
TommyK

[Chrono]

So it is true, I see. I've always heard and read that Tang Soo Do has a history of about 2,000 years. And, I have noticed a bit of Aikido during class. I guess my next question is how did the Koreans make the art different than Japanese karate?

Jon

[mlh1996]

Originally posted by Budoka 34
Mike,

My teachers teacher was a student of Park, Chull Hee and who was a student of Byung Yoon also a recognized Shihan of the Shudokan.

Do you by chance train in Shudokan?

Sort of, but not really I'm a mutt, stylistically.

I trained at the US Naval Academy with John Critzos, who was a 6th Dan under Master Kim, from '92-'96. I never officially graded under him, though. I kind of wish I had.

My personal style of TKD comes mainly from my first teacher, who I studied with for ten years, though it's definitely colored by what I learned from Mr. Critzos, in addition to judo, aikido, and silat, among other things.

I teach ITF TKD forms at my school, though I do still practice the TSD/Shudokan forms on occasion. When I lived in Omaha, I kept meaning to hook up with James Caldwell, but never quite got to it.

You know what? I've got a tournament next month. Maybe I'll polish up my Passai, just for old times' sake.

[mlh1996]

Originally posted by Chrono
I guess my next question is how did the Koreans make the art different than Japanese karate?

Jon

Well, they kick more

[Blackwood]

Tang Soo Do claims to trace its origins back some 2000 years. I went through my student handbook (TSD was the first style I studied for about 5 months.) based on my current style. I can match every one of their katas to one of the Okinawan Shorin Ryu katas. Yeah, there is a down block instead of a middle block and the like, but they are clearly identifiable. Most places seem to have moved away form TSD and just gone with the TKD name, though there are a few sticking it out. I see that even Mr. Norris has gone to TKD.

[Budoka 34]

Mike,
Good luck with the Kata.
Shihan Caldwell is an interesting guy and strong as an Ox. His Kids are so talented they make me jealous!


Jon,

I think that of the Korean styles, Tang Soo Do still demonstrates the most Japanese influence, both in form and spirit.

Taekwondo (ITF or WTF) has become something other.

[Chrono]

Originally posted by Budoka 34
Jon,

I think that of the Korean styles, Tang Soo Do still demonstrates the most Japanese influence, both in form and spirit.

Taekwondo (ITF or WTF) has become something other.

I must say, I do like this idea. From what I've gathered here, there's not much difference between the two.

Jon

[BigJon]

Hi guys,

Tang Soo Do was the first art I have trained in. Its been a long while, but I remember my teacher speaking about an art called Tae Kyon that was similiar to TKD, but still different enough to have it's own technoques, history etc... Does anyone here know if it (Tae Kyon) is a unique Korean art?(without Jpanese karate influence)

[Blackwood]

Jon, good question! And a few days ago I wouldn't have been able to answer it, but I can now! I wrote this article just the other day:

Tang Soo Do

[Budoka 34]

I believe TaeKyon was related to several of the "styles" of armed and unarmed combat that developed in Manchuria and Mongolia, such as Kwon Bop. It was similar to some of the later Chinese "Gung Fu" styles in it's depth of technique including grappling.

Later many of the "old" Kwans claimed it in their lineage and today many Taekondo lines have claimed it.

[BigJon]

I seem to remeber an old magazine article, that stated Tae Kyon is now practiced in TKD clubs. But before or after the TKD guys and gals are done. I am curious if it has any sort of headmaster, or organization. It seems to be treated as a sort of "folk dance" now.