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Thread: Who are all these Shimabukuro boys?

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    Default Who are all these Shimabukuro boys?

    I have been researching the origins and lineage of Shorin Ryu. I have run into some interesting conflicts and have some questions some of you may be able to help me out with. The most interesting seems to be about the various Shimabukuro Sensei aout there.

    As for my own lineage, I am studying Seibukan. The current headmaster is Zenpo Shimabukuro who assumed the title upon the death of his father, Zenryo Shimabukuro. According to an interview given by Zenpo to Dragon Times Magazine, Chotoku Kyan was his father's only sensei. Chotoku Kyan taught Shobayashi Shorin Ryu to Zenryo from 1930 until the war began. He claims that Zenryo studied with Kyan longer than any other student. He also states that the only other person to train with Kyan for any length of time was Nakazato Joen. (Bear with me, I am getting to my question.)

    In another article published by Mark W. Swarthout, it states that Kyan's most noted student was Eizo Shimabukuro. It also states that he left Eizo in charge of Shobayashi Ryu. So question #1 would be:

    1. Why was Eizo, not Zenryo or Nakazto, left in charge of Shobayahi Ryu? Especially since Kyan was Zenryo's only sensei and Eizo had a number of other notable sensei to influence him.

    In yet another article, it states that Eizo began training with Kyan in 1937 (among others). Kyan died in 1945. So question number two would be:

    2. Why is Eizo not mentioned by Zenpo in the Dragon Times article as another one of Kyan's students? Had Zenryo already left Kyan at the time? Another web page states that Zenryo actually instructed Eizo in 1955.

    Finally, it seems clear to me that Eizo and Tatsuo are brothers. As I understand it, Tatsuo founded Isshinryu Karate. No? So, my final question is:

    3. Are Zenryo and Eizo in anyway related? I am not sure how common the name Shimabukuro is on Okinawa. Are there any other Shimabukuros out there I should know about.

    Thanks for your patience and any information you are able to provide me.
    Mark Stauffer
    Hattiesburg, MS

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    Eizo and Zenpo are no relation.

    I personally knew both of them while on Okinawa and last saw Eizo Sensei a few years ago here in Florida, so I kinda know what I'm talking about.

    Both where given 10th dan by the same high authority from a Japanese organization at the same time, while they where both in their 30s.

    Neither where graded as such by Kyan.

    Both are head of their own ryu ha SeibuKan and ShoBayashi.

    Interesting question.

    I witnessed alot of jealousy between certain masters and organizations, so you are bound to get a few different answers.

    As for Tatsu, he broke from Shorin to form IsShin. He was senior to Eizo and incidentally, Eizo did not speak to him after the break, and that is up to and including the time of his "Tatsuo's" death.

    Also, Both Eizo and Zenpo speak English, Zenpo a bit more fluent, so why not ask them yourself?

    As I said, I knew both of them, and they are straight up, and never badmouth anybody.
    Steven L. Malanoski

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    A little note: Zenpo Shimabukuro is a son of Zenryo Shimabukuro, who was a student of Chotoku Kyan.

    There are some questions about Eizo Shimabukuro's relation to Kyan (and a fact that Eizo was very young when Kyan still lived) and whether Eizo was a student of Kyan or did he study under his brother (several things - such as Eizo's use of Isshin-Ryu's tateken - speak for this idea). However, there aren't many proof for either direction.

    Like Mr. Malanoski said, maybe it's best to ask straight by yourself.

    Relations:
    Eizo and Tatsuo Shimabukuro: Brothers. Zenryo and Zenpo Shimabukuro: Father and son.
    Jussi Häkkinen
    Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do
    Turku, Finland

  4. #4
    Iron Chef Guest

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    What was Chotoku Kyan's karate style called?

    Sukunai Hayashi,
    Shorinji Ryu,
    Shobayashi Ryu,
    None of the above,
    All of the above?
    Or where all the names applied post-mortem after 1945 by different sudents etc...?

    Thanks for your support.

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    Thanks Mr. Hakkinen. Yes that is what I meant, but in my haste, I wrote as I thought and it came out not differentiating father from son.

    Eizo was against the changes his brother made.
    Steven L. Malanoski

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    Originally posted by Iron Chef
    What was Chotoku Kyan's karate style called?

    ...

    Or where all the names applied post-mortem after 1945 by different sudents etc...?

    Thanks for your support.
    That part was a correct answer.


    Mr. Malanoski: Yes, I have also heard that Eizo Shimabukuro would have been against the changes. However, against that backround story, it would be interesting to hear why he still used those changes by himself (such as Isshin-Ryu fist etc.). Personally I tend to lean towards the "did not study under Kyan Chotoku and learned karate from his brother" -story, but I'm open to possible other explanations (and proof) as well.

    And please, just call me Jussi.
    Jussi Häkkinen
    Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do
    Turku, Finland

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    Thanks for the information guys. It is quite interesting. Mind you, I am not throwing around any attacks or accusations. I am just a lowly kyu in Seibukan that used to study Shotokan. I am just trying to get some answers to some conflicts that seem to exist in some of the information related to my new style. Is there a great print reference devoted to the history of Karate and its development? There are a lot of websites, but I am still a book guy. I am not as interested in books with techniques or kata. I am really looking for history and lineage stuff. I have read a few of Funakoshi Sensei's books. They are interesting, but I wonder how much might get lost in translation.
    Mark Stauffer
    Hattiesburg, MS

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    Most of them have it covered in the posts above. Mark Bishop's book has four different Shimabuku's and two Shimabukuro's, Zenpo and Zenryo.

    My use of the phrase 'most noted' was more of an authors opinon rather than being something to be taken as fact. Other's may have a different opinion as to the most noteworthy individual, but that was my take on what I have read, at least to the point where I wrote the article.
    Respectfully
    Mark W. Swarthout, Shodan

  9. #9
    hobbitbob Guest

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    Hi, Mark. Have spent the last three days with Dan Smith, who was here for a seminar this weekend, asking tons'o'questions! (Ask him to tell you the "whale story" )
    Anyway, one discussion this afternoon was about who actually studied with Kyan, and for what length of time. Apparently Shimabukuro Zenryo trained with him for ten years pretty much daily. Nakazato Joen did not train for as long, maybe a year, tops. He also modified a lot of the kata and techniques Kyan sensei taught and deviated from the principles. This isn't a knock on Shorinji-ryu, which is an effective style.
    Aragaki may have been his direct student for the longest amount of time, but he died relatively young, and his only student seems to have been Nagamine Shoshin.
    Shimabukuro Tatsuo apparently lived far enough away from Kyan sensei that it is exceptionally unlikely that he would have studied with him at any length.
    Hisataka (Kudaka) Kori apparently accompanied him to Taiwan, but then made his way to Manchukuo (Manchuria) where he was a provincial administrator. I had a chance to study with Watanabe Shunji, of Baltimore, who is Hisataka's student, and their karate is completely different, more like Shorinji Kempo. Hisataka apparently inherited a family style, as well as adding modifications he acquired from his friend So Doshin. Other than the use of a non-horizontal fist, and a fondness for heel-toe stepping, I don't see much similarity with Kyan style Karate.

    I also understant that That Toma Shian studies with Zenryo sensei, and some of the kata and techniques of his karate seem similar to Seibukan. Apparently Kise Fuse studied with either Zenryo or one of his students for a time, but there was some sort of falling out.

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    Thanks for the information Robert. It helps quite a bit. I haven't had the honor of meeting Smith Sensei yet, but my Sensei was his student, so I am sure I will get to sometime in the future. How are things in Colorado. I lived in Colorado Springs when I was stationed at Ft. Carson. I miss the place. If I ever get back there, I will check out your dojo.

    Thanks again.
    Mark Stauffer
    Hattiesburg, MS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Chef
    What was Chotoku Kyan's karate style called?

    Sukunai Hayashi,
    Shorinji Ryu,
    Shobayashi Ryu,
    None of the above,
    All of the above?
    Or where all the names applied post-mortem after 1945 by different sudents etc...?

    Thanks for your support.

    Sukunai Hayashi is Zenpo Shimabukuro's style
    Biljac Burnside

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    [QUOTE=kohei01]I have been researching the origins and lineage of Shorin Ryu. I have run into some interesting conflicts and have some questions some of you may be able to help me out with. The most interesting seems to be about the various Shimabukuro Sensei aout there.

    As for my own lineage, I am studying Seibukan. The current headmaster is Zenpo Shimabukuro who assumed the title upon the death of his father, Zenryo Shimabukuro. According to an interview given by Zenpo to Dragon Times Magazine, Chotoku Kyan was his father's only sensei. Chotoku Kyan taught Shobayashi Shorin Ryu to Zenryo from 1930 until the war began. He claims that Zenryo studied with Kyan longer than any other student. He also states that the only other person to train with Kyan for any length of time was Nakazato Joen. (Bear with me, I am getting to my question.)

    In another article published by Mark W. Swarthout, it states that Kyan's most noted student was Eizo Shimabukuro. It also states that he left Eizo in charge of Shobayashi Ryu. So question #1 would be:

    1. Why was Eizo, not Zenryo or Nakazto, left in charge of Shobayahi Ryu? Especially since Kyan was Zenryo's only sensei and Eizo had a number of other notable sensei to influence him.

    In yet another article, it states that Eizo began training with Kyan in 1937 (among others). Kyan died in 1945. So question number two would be:

    2. Why is Eizo not mentioned by Zenpo in the Dragon Times article as another one of Kyan's students? Had Zenryo already left Kyan at the time? Another web page states that Zenryo actually instructed Eizo in 1955.

    Finally, it seems clear to me that Eizo and Tatsuo are brothers. As I understand it, Tatsuo founded Isshinryu Karate. No? So, my final question is:

    3. Are Zenryo and Eizo in anyway related? I am not sure how common the name Shimabukuro is on Okinawa. Are there any other Shimabukuros out there I should know about.

    Thanks for your patience and any information you are able to provide me.[Tatsuo last name is Shimabuku ... there is no 'ro' on the end ... different family]
    Biljac Burnside

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    Default Shimabuku and Shimabukuro

    I may be mistaken, but I remember hearing that Tatsuo Shimabuku's name was Shimabukuro, or had a brother as such.

    I do not speak Japanese (Okinawan) so I am not sure. But I do believe there is a connection. This si what I have heard. Perhaps someone with better knowledge of this can add to this?

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    Default Shimabuku/Shimabukuro

    Shimabuku Tatsuo Sensei used both spelling during his lifetime, His younger
    brother is Eizo Shimabuku/Shimabukuro. the Seibukan Founder used Shimabukuro as does his son. Some say adding the "ro" makes it more formal
    but it really is up to whose name it is and how they wish to spell it when
    using english.
    thank you
    bill steigner
    Jinbukai
    Last edited by wsteigner; 3rd November 2006 at 18:40. Reason: spelling
    william steigner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Chef
    What was Chotoku Kyan's karate style called?

    Sukunai Hayashi,
    Shorinji Ryu,
    Shobayashi Ryu,
    None of the above,
    All of the above?
    Or where all the names applied post-mortem after 1945 by different sudents etc...?

    Thanks for your support.
    Sorry to revive this thread, but I am stumped in my research at this time of night...

    With Iron Chef's qoute in regards to all the style listed and the uses by these names by students after 1945. I am left with a few questions.

    My questions are:

    1) Kyan was considered an expert in both Tomari Te and Shuri-Te. Did he combined these two and created one art ?

    2) Ankinchi Arakaki and Taro Shimabuku were both students of Kyan. Did they have their own style ? If so what were they called ?

    Thanks
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

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