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Thread: You have one year to prepare for a duel.

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    Default You have one year to prepare for a duel.

    Hypothetical situation.

    One year from now, you are going to fight an unarmored duel with katanas. How do you train for it? Assume your opponent is your equal in skill and experience and that time, terrain, etc. is not a factor. Simple question.







    I realize this is a juvenile fantasy. You don't have to participate if you don't want to. This thread grew out of the tsuki thread if you have questions. I am trying to "prove" a point.
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

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    You quit your job, mortage your house, move to Japan, and train 40-60 hours a week.
    --Timothy Kleinert

    Aikido & Qigongs

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    Originally posted by TimothyKleinert
    You quit your job, mortage your house, move to Japan, and train 40-60 hours a week.
    In what? Describe this training.
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

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    Interesting scenario. I thought Timothy was going to say the same thing as me, but then he ended it with "training". I might just do the moving part. Seriously, I would do everything in my power to secretly watch the other guy train-then train counter to that.
    Daniel Garner
    Proud member of the
    Zombie Gun Club
    Denton branch

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    Default Charlie, I think I know the answer you're looking for . . .

    I. You get faster.
    The duel will be short and quick. Speed and reflexes are probably the most important factor with an edged weapon.

    II. You get stronger.
    Hopefully, in a clash, you'll have enough strength to move his blade in the direction you want. Better yet, hopefully you'll have enough mass or strength to push him completely off balance. Old MA trick-->push him off balance and then hit him when his arms come out.

    Charlie, is that what you were looking for? Like that tsuki, not so pretty but whatever gets the job done?
    Richard Kim


    "We'll say we're frightened and we have to go home." -- George / Seinfeld

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    Originally posted by Charlie Kondek
    In what? Describe this training.
    Well, I would focus on sparring and kumitachi. Actual style would be secondary. Maai, general tactics, would be more important than technique. Intensity, I think, would go without saying.

    I also second Daniel's thought. You need to know what to expect from your opponent.
    --Timothy Kleinert

    Aikido & Qigongs

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    In true Iai tradition, I walk over to the man shortly after he issues the challenge, and say, "In one year, we are to duel?" When he responds in the affirmative I cut him down
    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

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    Haha!

    Well, the agenda behind this question (it's revealed in the other thread to which I refer) is this: I believe that if you were going to train for an actual sword fight, you would train in kendo, and this to me "proves" that kendo is practical swordsmanship, realistic swordsmanship, swordsmanship that addresses today the same issues it first addressed in the 1700s when the shinai and bogu were introduced. It's a bald agenda, but I can put it that way if you prefer.

    If you were going to fight a duel in one year, would you train kendo? Plain and simple. Timothy, what do you mean by: "Well, I would focus on sparring and kumitachi. Actual style would be secondary." Where else can you get sparring with the intensity you would need besides kendo? I submit it cannot be done and that this is a point in favor of kendo.

    With all his cards on the table,

    Chas.
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

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    re: Charles Mahan

    re: Charlie Kondek
    Your true motives are revealed! I see you're looking for trouble!

    Are we going to argue the whole "kata vs. free-sparring" thing again? It's possible to get intensity and what not from pre-arranged kata (though I personally believe that at some point you need to engaged in some sort of semi-free sparring to truly learn to apply your tactics).
    --Timothy Kleinert

    Aikido & Qigongs

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    Only a fool would agree to a sword duel in a year not knowing how to use a sword.

    So would that make kendo the ideal swordsmanship for fools???

    Just kidding of course.

    Striving towards perfection (which is unattainable) is the goal.

    Swordsmanship ceased being practical when people quit carrying swords.
    Douglas Wylie

    Do not learn philosophy from fortune cookie.

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    Post hmmm

    Hi Charlie. With only one year to train, I would say kendo would be excellent training for a real steel-to-steel match. Keiko is an excellent way to prepare mentally for a match, and also, speed would be essential as Sapporo san pointed out, in that short span of time. I emphasize this, because preparing for a real match without a time limit, other systems would be as good, if not better for such a match. Much of the endurance training kendo provides would not be of much use, as it would likely be very quick, indeed, particularly if both participants only had one year of training.

    Many of the iai and kenjutsu systems would be equally valuable over longer periods of time. Both take longer to develop compentence with a sword in comparison to kendo, but it is closer to a katana (in some cases it is one) than shinai.

    I think the real essence of your argument, that kendo is still a valid martial system, holds true, although less because of technique and more because of the way it puts stress on you and you have to develop mental toughness to face the life or death situations of combat. However, they incorporated iai into the ZNKR for a reason, and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that a shinai is simply not a token (live blade). Hasuji can be a tricky SOB and pardon the pun, depending on the tsuru to tell you where it is just doesn't cut it. I also realize that the kata is included in the mainstream kendo curriculum, and this would be of equal importance in your training for it.
    --Neil Melancon--

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    Timothy:

    I'll admit the thread premise is potentially trollish and flame-tastic but... well, I'm speaking my mind here. So answer the question posed in the first post. If it goes up in flames, hey, we're all friends here.



    You have a year. What do you do? (Keanu voice) What... do... you do...? (/Keanu voice)

    Neil:

    I agree with you. So you're saying if you had, say, seven years to train for the duel, perhaps iaido would be just as well? Or something similar?
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

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    Default Re: hmmm

    Originally posted by Aozora
    a shinai is simply not a token (live blade)
    The word you're looking for is shinken. What they're talking about here is shinken-shobu (match with live blades).
    Neil Gendzwill
    Saskatoon Kendo Club

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    Charlie, don't worry, I think we're all having fun here.

    I agree that Kendo can be great training for a "real" fight, and that it would be a good choice for quick training.

    But I want to make a quick point. Most Budo-ka I know only train like 3-4 hours a week. The hardcore people I know train 10-12 hrs/week. Let's average that out to 8 hrs a week. If you follow my advice in my first post and start training full-time (40-60 hrs/week), in that one year of full-time training you can get the equavilent of 5-7 years of part-time training! I wouldn't call 2500-ish hours a "short span of time." I think that's plenty of time to establish some skill in any classical ryu.
    --Timothy Kleinert

    Aikido & Qigongs

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    Charlie


    Your over generalizing (and I am having trouble spelling)

    But as long as we are generalizing.

    I would beat feet to a koryu.

    Last thing I would do is practice with a fake sword--way to light, wrong handling characteristics, etc.

    Last thing I would want to do is practice an overegulated sport that teachs its students to turn their back on an opponent (last championship kendo tape I saw--had players "chargeing" thu an oppt-exposeing their backs.--also read a really neat "in person" article of a female naginata teacher matching with equally senior kendoka--she also was able to stike her oppt in the back)

    Last thing I would do is train in a sport that no longer teaches cuts to any spot other than the men, do or kote.

    Spots that are pretty well protected by a guy in classicial armor---and who is to say he won't show up armored anyway???
    Would not be the first time a little underhanded action went on in a Japanese (or any other) duel.
    Heck for that matter what if he brings a Yari?? or Naginata?

    Last thing I would do was to train in a sport that does not allow close quaters grappling, tripping, useing the butt end of the weapon as striking tool--and a number of other nasty little things that Pre-War Kendo included.

    Last thing I would do is train in sport that conditions its "players" that attacks will only be launched at them "within the rules" and attacks that are "illegal" will be stopped by the armor.

    Another thing that gives me pause is that several very well-known kendo-ka have expressed doubt that kendo can preparea person for a "real duel"

    I think I read that in a couple of Dragon Times/Classicial Fighting Arts mag articles.

    Please DON'T take my word for it--but thats what I recall reading.

    I mean NO offense to any kendo-ka, like I said as long as we are generalizing..........


    Chris Thomas

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