Likes Likes:  0
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 103

Thread: You have one year to prepare for a duel.

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    219
    Likes (received)
    2

    Wink You Just Won the Duel with my Buzz!!!

    BUZZKILLER!!!

    Carlos
    E. Carlos Estrella, Jr.

    The strength of a man is not measured in how much he can lift, how many he can fight or how much he can endure, but in his capacity to admit his limitations and learn to successfully circumvent them.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Himeji, Japan
    Posts
    722
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Re: You REALLY want to do this? Well...

    No spectators - no need for honour. You the survivor gets to write the story.

    That said. Why practice draws and resheathings. Your sword (spectator or no) will be out well before you are in range and it really does not matter how clumsy you are when you resheath the sword.

    Secondly - your opponent also has a year to train and I'll bet you good money that he's training his butt off. Long and the short of it is your training regime makes the assumption that the duel will last one or two parries - it will not.

    Further - practicing blocks and parries solo is the worst thing you can do for the simple reason that the response is to your own mind rather than the actions of an opponent. At the very least hire someone to strike at you with a number of random attacks that you would expect to encounter and then several more that you would not.

    Train as close to the situation you will face as you can without obtaining injury that will affect your level of training or your ability to perform on the day. This means sparring in addition to lots and lots of drills.

    Sparring is far more effective than meditation to prepare your mind for clear action on the day. It is important to approach your sparring with that in mind.

    Yeah and you are right - play with the kiddies.








    Originally posted by Carlos Estrella
    A year before a duel. Let's imagine for just a moment that some kind of honor was at stake where you couldn't just snuff out the competition right there or sneak up on him or her before the duel. Let's also imagine that there are no spectators, press, police or any other distractions. Also, let's eliminate any advantage of environment and just rely on relatively equal skill for the time being. NOW here's what I'd do with my year:

    Every day for at least an hour, pray and meditate. Have a clear mind and LEARN HOW TO CLEAR THE MIND UNDER STRESS.

    Every day for at least an hour, aerobic exercise of some type - need to get the pulse down under physical stress.

    Every other day, 1000 draws, 1000 cuts, 1000 blocks/parries and 1000 resheathings WITH A SHINKEN. Burn them into your muscle memory. Do them outside in the sun, in the rain, snow, whatever, ignoring weather and light. Do them in complete darkness, ignoring sight. Do them in the dark with cotton in your ears and up your nose, depriving yourself of outside stimuli <sp>. Train the mind and body for the task as hand.

    Every night, play with your children, love/honor your spouse... in other words, make every night for the rest of your life something shared with family. Whether you survive or not, a part of you will die while if you survive, you will be reborn in a sense.

    Don't bother sparring, practicing any kendo or any other thing besides the above training... it's all gonna come down to intent, reaction time and muscle memory anyway. Don't neglect your responsibilities, because heck... you may win and now you have to face the creditors since you didn't pay your bills for a year.

    If you've spent a year waiting to die, you will. If you've spent a year training to live, you'll most likely live. If you've spent a year actually LIVING while you trained to be the one left standing, odds are you will make it.

    FWIW,

    Carlos

  3. #33
    Norman Cooper Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by Charles Mahan
    In true Iai tradition, I walk over to the man shortly after he issues the challenge, and say, "In one year, we are to duel?" When he responds in the affirmative I cut him down
    Well said, Mr. Mahan. Actually my idea was: One year later, while sitting in seiza and meditating...as the challenger approaches (katana in saya)...I would cut him down and then continue meditating.
    Your idea may be more immediate, but I need the time to work on my ippon me mae.

    Open to anyone:
    Would a Japanese swordsman issue such a challenge? Sounds more like the style of a European swordsman, giving the other man the time to train so that there are no advantages. I have been taught that the samurai would not give up the advantage in a conflict. By planning a duel for a future date, in my opinion, the challenger would be giving up the advantage. It would seem more realistic to me that the challenge issued would be to fight at that time. You would have to be ready to fight or die fighting.

    Skip Cooper

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    6,227
    Likes (received)
    118

    Default

    While I can't remember any "meet me in one year" challenges in historical works, I have read of many "meet me in the morning in the orchard" and "meet me at sunset at such-and-such temple" challenges.

    And there are stories of duelists who would train specifically with the idea of catching up with another famous duelist at a future date to issue a challenge.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Lindenhurst, Illinois
    Posts
    1,114
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Need one actually train?

    The issue will be resolved in a handful of seconds. Seems like making a challenge stretch out over a year is a waste of 364 perfectly good days. Won't it all come down to me doing my best and the other guy doing his best to survive? I can't see spending hours and hours of training when the final event will come down to just two people and each using perhaps a single technique.

    BTW: Need one necessarily train with a jin kum? I am thinking that some of the most famous duels fought by Musashi were done with a WOODEN sword, and his only recorded defeat was at the hands of a Jo master. I also remember that strategy such as placement of the sun and arriving before the stated time played very significant roles in the encounters, yes? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Bruce W Sims
    www.midwesthapkido.com

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Saskatoon, SK, Canada
    Posts
    1,526
    Likes (received)
    58

    Default Re: Thread drift: shinken shobu

    Originally posted by nicojo
    I thought "shinken shobu" was an archaic term with hardly any currency...but one of the references to it in Draeger's book is ambiguous. But it simply doesn't happen nowadays, right? (yes I know it was a thought game, it's cool) Anybody have a historical last occurence of it? Isn't shinken shobu now a historical term only? Maybe it has philosophical layers, well I wouldn't know, for sure.
    I'm not sure when the last true one was, but I'd hazard a guess that it was less than 100 years. At any rate, in my understanding the term is still in use to mean anything that you approach with deadly seriousness.
    Neil Gendzwill
    Saskatoon Kendo Club

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    138
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    You know, I think we're all making certain assumptions about the scenerio, but none of our assumptions are the same. Why don't we try to better define things.

    Why the challenge?
    I don't think that matters, or at least I think we can ignore it for the purpose of the duscussion.

    How much do you know about the opponent?
    This changes things. Do you know what he studies & how good he is? Do you have any way to monitor what he does over the next year? In a year will you be doing a "blind" duel (you know nothing going into it), or will you know what you're getting into?

    How "good" is the opponent (& you)?
    Charlie said he would have the skill level as you, but how good that is changes things. If both of you are new to JSA and/or martial arts, the amount you train will make a big difference. If you both have been training for 20 years... another year won't make much difference.

    What style does he (& you) practice?
    What style the two of you practice will make a big deal how things play out, since it will play into what you need to train in, meaning what areas you need to focus on.

    Can you monitor his training?
    As I've already hinted at, you need to know what to expect and plan for in order to be truly effective. If you're able to monitor his training you can modify your's to counter. Inversely, will he be able to monitor you?

    How much will he train over the year?
    Knowing how dedicated he is to training will effect how much you should train.

    For the purposes of the discussion, I suggest...
    -Let's say both he and the generalized "you" are both the equalivent of shodan. You both know what you're doing but you're in no way masters.
    -Let's say you both know what styles the other studies. Let's say he trains in both kendo and some generic 'iai.'
    -Let's say you can expect that he will only train in his styles, that he will not branch out.
    -Let's say he will train a reasonable, but not an overwhelming amount, maybe 2 hours a day or maybe 12 hours a week.
    -Let's say that neither he nor yourself have the ability to monitor the other.

    There's one more question/assumption I saved for last: Will training actucally increase my chance of survival?
    Some people (myself included) have the assumption that the more you train, the better your chance of survival. But others seem to have the assumption that no matter how much you train, your chance of survival doesn't increase significantly (or at least it wouldn't increase significantly enough to warrant the increase in training).
    --Timothy Kleinert

    Aikido & Qigongs

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,654
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Carlos, I really like your answer.

    Yagyu Shinkage Ryu and a load of other Ryu use Fukurojinai.
    So what's that like? Anyone know?
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,654
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Timothy: Good points. The thread can go any way it wants. As I said earlier, I only made the thread to try to make a point about kendo, but people can do whatever they want with it. I think whenever we have the kendo vs. iai vs. whatever the same answers come up and everyone sticks to their guns and thinks the other guy is nuts.

    I mean, I train kendo and iai. I, too, would just as soon duel on the spot as a year from now. The only thing I would do different if I could is make sure I can do all my kendo attacks with shinken (something I've already worked on with iaito), and that my cuts and hasuji were better with some more tameshigiri practice.
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

  10. #40
    Shoki Guest

    Default

    Reading this thread has brought a lot of laughs!

    My humble opinion to the duel Q is this....a life and death duel is decided mostly on the mental state of the individual...most people will bottle it and make a big mistake that leads to their death.....so the man who said live life to the full for a year I believe is a confident man who stands a good chance......train all you like but we all know that an ikkyu can still beat a 7th Dan ..neh?

    Budo is about polishing ourseleves through hard training and enjoying it along the way with friends etc.....we do not live in feudal Japan.......if your training is clouded with too many dark thoughts then you will be turning to the dark side! heheheheeee

    Charlie has raised some laughs with this thread..... domo arigato

    Robert Anderson

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    6,227
    Likes (received)
    118

    Default

    Originally posted by Charlie Kondek
    Yagyu Shinkage Ryu and a load of other Ryu use Fukurojinai.
    So what's that like? Anyone know?
    AFAIK, training at the lower levels is based on kata (paired forms, not solo like Iaido), with the Fukuro Shinai (aka Hikihada Shinai) allowing contact.

    At higher levels I was told there is a sort of semi-free sparring practiced, and at very high levels a return to kata but with shinken, but I don't have an authoritative source for this.

    Maybe if he's not already reading this, someone can give Meik Skoss a shout and see what he says.
    Last edited by Brian Owens; 2nd April 2004 at 18:34.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Upper Texas Gulf Coast Area
    Posts
    58
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by TimothyKleinert

    For the purposes of the discussion, I suggest...
    -Let's say both he and the generalized "you" are both the equalivent of shodan. You both know what you're doing but you're in no way masters.
    -Let's say you both know what styles the other studies. Let's say he trains in both kendo and some generic 'iai.'
    -Let's say you can expect that he will only train in his styles, that he will not branch out.
    -Let's say he will train a reasonable, but not an overwhelming amount, maybe 2 hours a day or maybe 12 hours a week.
    -Let's say that neither he nor yourself have the ability to monitor the other.


    Mr. Kleinert, I believe you have forgotten one important factor in the decision to deul. In the spirit of the samurai of old, is the challenger a worthy opponent? Is he of honorable stock? If not, then I would choose not to fight and invest the next year to the art of ikebana.
    Skip Cooper
    It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.- Mark Twain

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Denton, Tx
    Posts
    316
    Likes (received)
    0

    Smile Good question

    Hello,
    I'm on my lunch break so I haven't had time to read all the posts yet. What I have come away with from the first two pages is that we are some focused individuals. We can see a year away and know exactly what to do (for ourselves) to be ready to face a challenge. This might be a sword duel, or a project to get funding, or an art show whatever. All the posts I read seem to share this same vision. Fantastic. That's why I keep coming back.
    Daniel Garner
    Proud member of the
    Zombie Gun Club
    Denton branch

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sagey Plains, WY
    Posts
    900
    Likes (received)
    0

    Thumbs up Thanks

    I'm not sure when the last true one was, but I'd hazard a guess that it was less than 100 years. At any rate, in my understanding the term is still in use to mean anything that you approach with deadly seriousness.
    Thanks, Mr. Gendzwill. That's pretty much what I wanted to know, whether the term was used in something other than the historical context to describe the kind of duel. It is interesting that it does have meaning today in some people's training.
    J. Nicolaysen
    -------
    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Saskatoon, SK, Canada
    Posts
    1,526
    Likes (received)
    58

    Default Re: Thanks

    Originally posted by nicojo
    It is interesting that it does have meaning today in some people's training.
    Not necessarily training, more of an everyday expression as I understand it. Some of the people using it may not even be aware of what it originally meant, something like saying "hoist on his own petard" - lots of people say it, understand what it means in a modern context, have no clue what a petard is. (The answer is here, if you're curious)
    Neil Gendzwill
    Saskatoon Kendo Club

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •