Sageo

[xensu]

Quick question - what is the significance of the sageo wrap on the saya. (http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/sageo.htm)

I've been taught to use the sageo to hold up the sleeves. So we keep the sageo in the obi tied in a nuse like knot which is fanned out at the top. You pop it out from the obi and hook it with your tounge through the fanned opening then pull with your teeth spearing your arms through the opening while kicking you your head back slightly to create an upword movement. It comes out to form a figure eight with the "x" accross your back. This is one way to do it i'm told but you have to be careful about biting your tounge

[sven beulke]

Hello Jack,
the sageo wraps are for display on a swordstand and have decorative reasons.
regards

[Mekugi]

I tie mine totally different, for functional reasons only.

I stretch it the length of the saya and tie the knot on the bottom end. Kind of like stringing a guitar.

In this way, it is easy to untie for keiko and is free of the kinks that happen when you have a thick sageo.

-Russ

[nicojo]

Mr. Ebert,

Can you post a pic or link showing how you tie the bottom knot? Do you tie it around the saya or do you have a saya with two *can't remember the name right now, but the little nubbins that the sageo loops through*?

Thanks,

[Shimura]

I either let mine hang freely (meaning draped over the saya with the remainder hangning) or, for practical purposes, I make a small loop that I pull through my himo. This of course a large loop on your left side that stays close to the body and will not have the tendency of "snaring" anything. I've been taught that either way is kosher, it all depends on preference.

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by nicojo
Mr. Ebert,

Can you post a pic or link showing how you tie the bottom knot? Do you tie it around the saya or do you have a saya with two *can't remember the name right now, but the little nubbins that the sageo loops through*?

Thanks,

Yeah sure!

Call me Russ, Mr. Ebert sounds weird

[Mekugi]

After running the sageo down the saya, double the end back to create a loop. Then you wrap the loose end around 2 times, fold it back and pull it through the loop. Pushing the knot down towards the end of the saya tightens it and covers up the whole thing.

[Mekugi]

The Kogusoku...

[Mekugi]

A look at the Kogusoku knot upclose to get the idea...

[nicojo]

Perfect, thanks Russ. I knew one of the ways to loop it in the obi, but Shimura had the other, so I am good to go. Thanks again guys.

[Shimura]

gomenasai, I thought you were talking about when you have the sword thrust through the obi, during practice. As far as storing, then I also do it as Russ so amply demonstrated. Glad you got the info you needed though.

[Jeff Hamacher]

please pardon the intrusion of a non-sword type into the world of sword types ... my impression was that the sageo functioned as a kind of leash to keep the scabbard from sliding around in your belt, especially sliding forward during a poorly-executed draw. one of the Japanese dictionaries i have floating around the house defines it that way, anyhow. the practice i've seen in iai demos and jidai geki (check out Ame Agaru) is running it around the scabbard and tucking the knotted end of the sageo under the knot of your himo, which is what i think Gary described. any thoughts?

[nicojo]

Welcome to the world of sword types. We will be kind to you. I have visited your world of Aikido and found it to my liking. Your people have been kind to me and my intrusions there.

Since I am a beginner, and I am speaking, I don't know much (re: your sig.), but as you can see there are several things done with sageo.

Seems that your post is correct concerning the use of sageo in the active sense, securing the saya to the obi. Sageo can also be used to tie back sleeves, some people in my dojo do this, though not always with the sageo on their saya. They are wealthy and own more than one sageo. I believe I read a thread somewhere on e-budo that there is a specific term for this use of it, and that the sageo may be smaller/thinner, but I may be thinking of when a different cord is used to tie up somebody. Well maybe someone who knows will speak.

And then the ornamental way, whether on a stand or in storage. This thread kind of covered all of these uses, so you have one-stop shopping. It's a versatile thing. I can't remember the more specific threads, but this is the only one I have seen with a description of the long "storage" tie that Russ showed. The link in the first post is of two more ornate ties if you want. One is very complex, perhaps to show off the sword for a potential buyer or admirers or something. The other is more practical. Russ's is most practical.

edited to say: well all I did was summarize, but hey maybe some new guy will find this useful some day. ps: Shimura, nothing to apologize for, now all the info is more or less on one page!

[Shimura]

Welcome Aikido type to the world of sword wielders. I'm also an Aikido type as well, and practice my iai at my Aikido dojo that I attend. While we are still on the subject of sageos, there is another thing that it can be used for.

When I was training in Japan I was also shown a method of using the sageo as a weapon in itself. How you may ask? Easy, just like you could use a wet towel. We were shown how to snap it in someone's face, or even try and use it to catch someone elses sword (if it is still in the saya). Did not believe it was possible myself until I saw Yamada sensei pull it off. Maybe not chivalrous either, but truly practical.

[Mekugi]

HEY!
Jeff it is good to see you back in town! I've seen your posts on E-budo lately and haven't said my welcomes back. Beg your pardon!

I have heard tell that the sageo is also used to keep the sword in the most economic place when running or thrashing around through a myraid of envornments; kind of a multi-purpose safety feature.

My feeble impression is practical above all else.

-Russ

Originally posted by Jeff Hamacher
please pardon the intrusion of a non-sword type into the world of sword types ... my impression was that the sageo functioned as a kind of leash to keep the scabbard from sliding around in your belt, especially sliding forward during a poorly-executed draw. one of the Japanese dictionaries i have floating around the house defines it that way, anyhow. the practice i've seen in iai demos and jidai geki (check out Ame Agaru) is running it around the scabbard and tucking the knotted end of the sageo under the knot of your himo, which is what i think Gary described. any thoughts?