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Thread: 8 schools

  1. #1
    Usagi Yojimbo Guest

    Default 8 schools

    I have read that at one time Hatsumi S. only claimed 8 schools. Which school (of the 9 "taught" in the Bujinkan now) did Hatsumi S. omit?

  2. #2
    Usagi Yojimbo Guest

  3. #3
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    HI

    i think this was a mistake in the history and traditions book as it omits the Gyokushin ryu.

    as the book was released in early 80's I think this was an error as The 'Bujinkan Tanemura Dojo' poster (which was tanemura senseis dojo before he left to start the Genbukan dojo) listed 9 ryu.

    I have a copy of the poster so I can verify that it lists 9 ryu and was used at the time history and traditions was released

    so to summarise

    there never was oinly 8 claimed it was a mistake in one book
    Paul Richardson - Shidoshi
    Bujinkan Lincoln Dojo

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    Default

    Originally posted by poryu
    there never was oinly 8 claimed it was a mistake in one book
    Paul,

    The 8 schools claims didn't just appear in one book. I've got on the desk in front of me a copy of "Fighting Arts" which dates from 1976 which is pre-Bujinkan days. There's an article in it about Hatsumi Sensei by Arthur Tansley who says "Yoshiaki Hatsumi, who is the 34th headmaster of the Togakure Ninpo Ryu of Ninjutsu, along with seven other Ryu.........."

    I don't really know much about the history of the 8 schools claim (and I care even less about it) but it does seem that it appeared in more than one place.
    John Anderson

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    Default

    HI John

    i dont have that mag so didnt know it was mentioned prior to the books

    thanks
    Paul Richardson - Shidoshi
    Bujinkan Lincoln Dojo

  6. #6
    JamesGarcia Guest

    Default Hehehe...

    Yeah Paul... This is something that no one has asked Hatsumi So'ke directly... Yet.

    In the chapter about the Bujinkan Ryu'ha in Sensei's 1974' book, 'Sengoku Ninpo' Zukan ,' he lists only eight, Gyokushin Ryu' Ninpoo' being the one absent.

    Pre-Bujinkan??? Any idea when was the first announcement of Bujinkan as an official organization? I have yet to find any concrete reference.

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    Hi daniel

    I have asked this many times but no one seems to be able to answer it.I am guessing mid 70's maybe earlier than that
    Paul Richardson - Shidoshi
    Bujinkan Lincoln Dojo

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    Default Question?

    What was the name of Takamatsu Sensei's organization before the reign of Hatsumi? Do you know Paul? I know he had an organization called the Kashihara Shobukyoku with Akimoto Fumio and Kimura Masaji at Kashihara in Nara prefecture in 1950, but did he do more?
    Tracy Crocker
    Tracy Crocker

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    HI

    I think in either Bujin or tetsuzan newsletters Hatsumi said the dojo was called Sakushin
    Paul Richardson - Shidoshi
    Bujinkan Lincoln Dojo

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    Default Re: Hehehe...

    Originally posted by JamesGarcia
    Pre-Bujinkan??? Any idea when was the first announcement of Bujinkan as an official organization? I have yet to find any concrete reference.
    Ishizuka Sensei once told me that the Bujinkan began as an organisation in 1979 and as he was there, I've got no reason to doubt his word.
    I also recall SKH saying something about being at the inaugural shidoshikai meeting in 1979 which would seem to tie in with Ishizuka's account.
    John Anderson

  11. #11
    JamesGarcia Guest

    Default Hehehe...

    hmmm...

    In the Author's Profile on page 208 of Hatsumi Sensei's book, 'Sengoku Ninpo' Zukan,' it says, "At present, Grandmaster of Bujinkan Do’jo’, Bujinden". The copyright on that book printed on the next page says, "ShoWa 53-Year, 4-Month, 10-Day" which I believe is April 10, Sho'wa 53(1978). I think that is correct, or am I off by a year.

    Anyone have any older books that would have his profile to see if there is a reference to the Bujinkan before that.

    And I do remember Steve Hayes mentioning an inaugural Shido'shi meeting. Maybe in a Ninja Realm article. I'll look and see if I can find the reference.

  12. #12

    Default

    Well, don't flame me for this, and quite frankly it doesn't really matter, but I was told by someone that Gyokushin ryu didn't come about until much later and that it wasn't from Takamatsu sensei. According to the Japanese source, Hatsumi sensei acquired it in another way. Does anyone else have any information about this? I would rather discuss this over private email too.
    Best,
    Todd Schweinhart
    www.yoshindojo.com
    Louisville Kentucky

  13. #13
    JamesGarcia Guest

    Default Hehehe...

    Hmmm... I have never heard anything like that rumor. Was the Japanese Source in the Bujinkan?

    This is something I just found that strikes up an interesting argument. It is my opinion that Hatsumi So'ke officialy received the Nine Schools of the Bujinkan as the next So'ke, but also studied many other styles under Takamatsu Sensei in his fifteen years of training directly under him. For example, Hatsumi Sensei is 26th So'ke of Shinden Fudo'-Ryu' Daken-Taijutsu, yet we also train in it's Ju'-taijutsu... Another example is the Menkyo'Kaiden Sensei has hanging in his office for Amatsu Tatara... Menkyo' Kaiden, not So'ke.

    Another interesting example is the three scrolls Hatsumi Sensei has for Gyokko-Ryu'... The three say Gyokko-Ryu' Kosshi-Jutsu, GR Shito'-Jutsu and GR NinJutsu (I am trying to find the picture I have of the Makimono to see if it is Ninpo’ or Ninjutsu, but havn’t found it yet)… although he is officially So’ke of Kosshi-Jutsu.

    Now, I just happened upon this. In the same 1978 book, ‘Sengoku Ninpo’ Zukan ’ I mentioned earlier as Sensei leaving out Gyokushin Ryu’ Ninpo’, on page 203 he states, “from this GyokKo’-Ryu’ KosShiJutsu were born Koto’-Ryu’ Koppo’-Jutsu, Gyokushin-Ryu’ Koppo’-Jutsu and Gikan-Ryu’ Koppo’-Jutsu.” In year 2000’ we studied the Koppo’-Jutsu of Koto’-Ryu’, Gikan-Ryu’ and Gyokushin-Ryu’. This was unusual as Hatsumi So’ke normally lists the Gyokushin-Ryu’ he inherited as Ninpo’.

    I also cross referenced the infamous Tanemura Bujinkan Do’jo poster he had before breaking from the Bujinkan that lists Gyokushin Ryu’ as Koppo’jutsu as well.

    So much for speculation…

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    Default

    I have seen what was described as the ryu in question from a couple of different teachers, including one who I train with at least once a month if possible, and it does very much look as having an origin along the lines of what the previous poster said. (What was taught was within a wider context and is probably no different that what was being taught in 2000, but I wasn't around then so I don't know. Wish I had been around though.)

    J. Vlach, Amsterdam

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