Sword cutting a jo during a parry?

[TimothyKleinert]

In this thread from the sword arts forum, the question of a katana/ tachi cutting through a naginata shaft was raised. The discussion slowly morphed into a katana cutting through a jo. I thought I would bring up the question here, to get y'all's perspective on the issue.

What is your opinion on a jo getting cut in half by a katana during a parry? I've been told, that while possible, it's pretty hard for a swordsman to actually cut a jo in a real fight.

Thanks!

[SMJodo]

Although I have not experienced this first hand, I was at a demonstration where a sword took a chunk out of the side of a Jo. I would think that it's possible given the strength of the weapons involved (ie a good sword vs. a used training Jo, etc).

Regardless, I wouldn't plan on relying on Makiotoshi (side block) more than once in a fight - I would try to catch the cut as quickly as possible to restrain the momentum (tsuki, kuritsuki, etc). Just my thoughts.....

[Jack B]

The sword-blocking in Jodo can (and perhaps should) all be done with movement lateral to the strike. This produces kuzushi and/or seme in addition to stopping the cut. Squarely catching the ha is probably not a functional tactic.

It is proper to do it however your teacher instructs, understanding that basic technique may be for timing and call for direct blocking, which may be modified to a moving block later.



* YTMMV = Your Teacher's Mileage May Vary

[chrismoses]

I can't find the video right now, but a while back this same topic came up on Bugei's forum. Big Tony and (I believe) Keith Larman set up a camera. Tony swung a sword, and Keith swung a jo. At the end of the video, Tony's pointing and laughing and Keith is now holding a little stick... I can't find the link right now, I think it was posted on summerchild polishing. Granted it was Tony, and granted the swings were right at each other, but the sword went through the jo so cleanly that it almost looked like they missed. I don't think it's impossible to deflect or redirect a sword with a good jo, but it was very clear that the direct blocks seen in most aiki-jo would only work against a bokken. What I've seen of real jodo would be a different matter. The sword will most certainly go through the jo given the opportunity though.

[Andy Watson]

During an iai training session, my senior (Nashie) used a jo to represent the opponent while I did Ushiro. I turned and cut with a relatively light cut and accidently hit the jo. On close examination, the shinken had cut in a rather scary 2-3mm, scary because it was a rather light one-handed cut.

Looking at the way that techniques appear in SMR katas, I would guess that the developers of the forms realised all too well how easy it would be to cut through a jo with a well sharpened shinken and a determined effort. As far as I can discern, there are no occasions when the jo "blocks" the tachi with a direct prevention of the edge.

[Mekugi]

That was also a red oak jo they were using. I can snap those in half behind my neck with a little pressure, while my white oak jo is a great deal stronger.

Here: http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...hlight=red+oak

that's where the other thread is.

-R

Originally posted by chrismoses
I can't find the video right now, but a while back this same topic came up on Bugei's forum. Big Tony and (I believe) Keith Larman set up a camera. Tony swung a sword, and Keith swung a jo. At the end of the video, Tony's pointing and laughing and Keith is now holding a little stick... I can't find the link right now, I think it was posted on summerchild polishing. Granted it was Tony, and granted the swings were right at each other, but the sword went through the jo so cleanly that it almost looked like they missed. I don't think it's impossible to deflect or redirect a sword with a good jo, but it was very clear that the direct blocks seen in most aiki-jo would only work against a bokken. What I've seen of real jodo would be a different matter. The sword will most certainly go through the jo given the opportunity though.

[Rei Ho]

What your jo is made of changes everything as well. We use to use those red oak ones years ago and they do snap easily. I personally use a real strong white oak, but I have seen some jo made by craftsman that are made out of various exotic woods that I dare to say might give a sword a nick. Museum Replica's use to sell a 5ft staff that was made of various material pressed together. An old friend of mine bought it for me years ago. It looks and feels petrified. Back in my younger and stupid days, we went to it with a sword and the sword had a darn hard time getting though it. In fact, I hurt the sword! I reckon you pretty much have to hang on for the ride in a real fight and hope to come out smiling.
Talk to ya later.
Tracy Crocker

[renfield_kuroda]

I second that -- can't think of a single kata where the jo BLOCKS the sword. Most of the time you avoid the sword and use the jo to counter the attacker's hand/body/etc.

Regards,
r e n

Originally posted by Andy Watson
Looking at the way that techniques appear in SMR katas, I would guess that the developers of the forms realised all too well how easy it would be to cut through a jo with a well sharpened shinken and a determined effort. As far as I can discern, there are no occasions when the jo "blocks" the tachi with a direct prevention of the edge.

[Mekugi]

SHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..............don't say that.

Originally posted by renfield_kuroda
I second that -- can't think of a single kata where the jo BLOCKS the sword. Most of the time you avoid the sword and use the jo to counter the attacker's hand/body/etc.

Regards,
r e n

[Rei Ho]

Cruel Russ! Cruel Russ! But I like it! LOL!!!
Tracy Crocker