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Thread: How much do you really want Heijoshin?

  1. #31
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    Colin Linz writes:
    Does an elevated heart rate preclude you from attaining this state? I have noticed when ridding motorcycles fast that my heart rate can be high, but in spite of this, and even when something dangerous and unexpected occurs, my actions and thought processes are calm
    The thing about the heart rate is that the body can only cope with the pulse being elevated to a certain level before it becomes detrimental to health. In some individuals this threshold is set at a higher point than in others.
    Tony Leith writes:
    Training will probably help by essentially artificially simulating situations which induce similar physiological responses,which hopefully will make the 'real thing' easier to deal with, but there are no guarantees.
    I think you are right on this point. For example because of my nursing background I am not phased by what might be classed as a medical emergency but am able to deal with things in a very cool, calm manner. Similarily a fireman must learn to run into burning buildings and not panic. I'm sure Ade in his particular profession deals with physically threatening situations more frequently than the rest of us. The point is if you do something often enough you learn to deal with the fear.
    P.S. The whole emotionless vulcan thing is rubbished by Tuvok having a family if you ask me.
    Tracey Fuller
    Bournemouth, Shorinji Kempo

  2. #32
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    Is there a way to maintain heijoshin while exhibiting all the subtle moderated action of a tasmanian devil with PMT? I refer to the self defence tactic of going berserk and flailing around in a rage of such uninhibited violence that, should anyone be foolish enough to attack, all who come within range shall be knocked unconscious immediately.

    Can I still call my wide-eyed panic: heijoshin, or do I have to keep dry trousers for it to be authentic?
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  3. #33
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    Tracey,

    You are right of course, but we are not talking about a sustained heart rate, or even an abnormally high heart rate. I remember reading the data from an Australian cyclist from a 20 kilometre time trial, his heart rate was over 200 for the entire time. This was amazing because he was still operating aerobically, although no doubt at his threshold. I don?ft believe that he was in any danger or will suffer health problems from it (me on the other hand would probably die). If his heart rate was always high this would of course be different. Most of these athletes have resting heart rates of around 40 bpm. This is where training falls into place. Training allows us to deal with a higher heart rate, both mentally and physically.

    Being familiar with heart rate training I would estimate my heart rate when on a track ridding hard (motorcycle) would be vary from around 120 through to about 140, and could spike to 180 in times of emergency. I?fll have to wear my heart rate monitor next time I go for a ride and check it out.

    The reason I have used the motorcycle example is that in both motorcycles and self-defence we have to overcome the natural responses our bodies are programmed with, with more effective responses. To do this you need to remain calm and controlled, and to a certain amount detached from what is happening to yourself; this can be done even when the physical effort is relatively high, and the heart rate has elevated above normal.
    Cheers
    Colin Linz

  4. #34
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    Gassho.
    For those of you who are knowledgeable about this (Colin, Tracey, Ade Sensei, etc.), what would you consider to be the optimum heart rate both when at rest, and during exercise? I'd be interested to know, because then I could compare it to my own performance in the gym.
    TIA and kesshu.

  5. #35
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    I remember max heart rate is 220 - age, and optimal for training depends on what your doing. For normal cardio 50-75% of the maximum is best.
    Leon Appleby (Tokyo Ouji)
    半ばは自己の幸せを、半ばは他人の幸せを
    SK Blog at http://www.leonjp.com

  6. #36
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    Tony,

    Heart rate training is a great tool, but you have to know what you want to achieve.

    The Energy Efficient or Recovery Zone - 60% to 70%. Training within this zone develops basic endurance and aerobic capacity, this is also the area that uses fat as a fuel, so if you are thinking about weight reduction this zone is where you should be. This zone is also used in recovery sessions.

    The Aerobic Zone - 70% to 80%.Training in this zone will develop your cardiovascular system. This is where you want to be if you want to be to develop your capacity to work longer at higher work rate.

    The Anaerobic Zone - 80% to 90%. Training in this zone will develop your lactic acid system. In this zone your individual anaerobic threshold is found. This is where you are no longer using fat, but have moved onto the glycogen stores in your muscles. From here your performance drops considerably and your heart rate rises quickly. This training area produces the dreaded lactic acid. This training is useful in helping lift your anaerobic threshold, meaning you can work aerobically at a higher heart rate.

    Before you can do any of this you need to know your maximum heart rate. This is exercise specific, so it should be identified by doing the type of exercise as you would be in normal training. So if you cycle don?ft check it by running. Working out your maximum heart rate can be risky so don?ft try to do it on your own, get someone that knows what they are doing to help you with it, and have a medical check up before doing it.
    Cheers
    Colin Linz

  7. #37
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    Talking Cofused?

    Morning All (please be quiet, I'm hungover!)

    Gassho

    There is a distinct difference to elevating your heart rate through cardio vascular exercise and via fear.

    In the 60's the American space programme wanted to test what it's potential astronaut's "true" response was to a moment of blind panic.
    For weeks they needlessly arranged complex drills involving moving about in full space suit performing maintenance exercises in swimming pools in darkness.
    They fitted an extra visor to the helmet, which created total darkness and could be remotely opened very quickly.
    By this point the astronauts were used to spending long periods suspended on hoists, totally in the dark, comfortable with the sensations of movement, cosseted by a controllers voice in their ear telling them what was going to happen next.
    Then they slowly winched them over 800 feet up onto a gantry and suspended them over concrete, face down.
    Then they snapped the visor open.
    I am told that one potential astronaut, lulled into a false sense of security, gave an almost inaudible scream, whilst momentarily losing control of his bladder and (audibly!) his bowels, his heart rate went from 80 to 223 in a fraction of a second.

    That's the difference.

    Strangely(?!) none of the recruits fared much better, as one "expert" put it: "It seems like no amount of training can stop you getting scared..."

    No sh'it...Sherlock...

    Ade
    A man with small testes should never get involved in a fight requiring cojones

  8. #38
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    Cool Nice Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by Ade View Post
    Dear All

    Having just re-read the post I would hurridly add that in no way am I suggesting our practice aims for this goal.

    The ending was also meant to be different but e-budo went mad and posted an unfinished draft.

    What I was trying to say was that I don't believe that normal people can ever totally control fear in all circumstances, but that Shorinji Kempo practice gives you a way to control some effects of adrenalin and to deal with stressful situations appropriately, unlike Kuklinski.

    Sorry for any upset caused.

    Ade

    PS Moderators please add this to the original post.
    Not two. The way I think about thinking effects (and affects) my ongoing thinking (life as a process of observe, consider, decide, act . . . ) . . . "normal" and "control" are useful illusions . . . but . . . IMHO . . . they can always become DELUSIONS which can lead to pathology. I see no "upset" at all in your original post. Much to think about . . . well considered indeed. Keep sharing please.

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