Information on training drills and exercises of the Russian System

[Paul Genge]

I have recently updated our clubs website with an in dpth section on training drills, principles of and exercises from the Russian Martial Art, Systema. There are a number of video clips on a variety of video clips on various subjects including defence against knife and the rather mis-understood area of working without contact.

Hopefully this will give some appretiation of the depth of the Russian System and clarify some of the mis-conceptions. Please feel free to make comment / ask questions.

Paul Genge
(Russian Martial Arts Northwest)

[Robc]

I reviewed some of your video clips and read your explanation of practicing without contact. Do you ever spar full contact and attempt to use the techniques you demonstrate in the video clips? By full contact I mean throw some headgear on, a cup and a mouthguard, and go at it until someone says "uncle" or gets knocked out.

Thank you for posting a link to your site.

Rob

[Paul Genge]

I work as a Police Officer. I use these principles against full speed attacks from non-complient attackers and they work. The situation always dictates what principles you apply. Using the principles of density and support are particularly good.

If you opponent resists against you push into the tension on his body from a different angle. This will always move his form. Taking away the support your body gives an oppontent will cause them to stumble or fall.

When someone punches you they are trying to draw support for their body through their fist. The amount of support will depend on the way they punch. Some people lean into the punch more than others. Others will throw punches that have little commitment, but are unlikely to cause real damage. I have had one opponent spin his self into the floor like a cork screw when I moved out of the way of his punch. If I had not got out of the way it would of burried me. This kind of work relies on timing. This is best learnt slow.

Slow exercises allow you to learn many of things, but the most important is correct timing. You must practice to move at the same speed as as your opponent. If you learn to move at the speed of lightening when you are attacked by a person who moves at the speed of a tortoise, what would you then do if your next opponent moved as fast as the hair?

Working against someone who is using pads is ok, but you have to learn slow first. I have done this kind of thing. If you go down this route it is best to have one person acting as the attacker. Otherwise you can get competitve and loose sight of what you are trying to achieve. After all we are learning to survive, not inflict damage or score points on you opponent.

Paul Genge

[Robc]

Thanks for the reply. I'm an LEO, too, so cheers from across the Atlantic.

Are you aware of any fight footage that shows Systema in full contact action? The reason I ask is that I'm curious to know if the techniques displayed during slow training, and light/no contact training look anything like what they look like during full contact fighting. Do the techniques morph into something less graceful, even if they maintaining some of the principles you outlined? Every altercation I've been in, whether as a LEO or otherwise, and every one I can recall witnessing, quickly turned into what looked like a combination of dirty boxing/thai boxing and grappling of one kind or another. Lots of fists, elbows and knees, then often a sloppy take down and restraint, or some version of ground and pound -- very fast and very harsh. I've just never seen anyone succeed using anything that looked as fluid as Systema, which reminds me, to some extent, of the kind of graceful footage I've seen of Aikido practitioners.

I'm not saying it can't be done. In fact, I'd like to think it can. Any suggestions for where to find such footage?

[Paul Genge]

Vladimir Vasiliev has some interesting clips on his site http//www.russianmartialart.com. These include some clips of fast pre-emptive striking. He has a video that he has released on working in confined places. The clips I have seen of this are good.

The best thing to do is try and get to a course with Vlad. He is in the States regularly. I know when I first met him I tried my hardest to catch him out, but ended up on my arse.

I have found that studying the system has made my proffessional work calmer, smoother and more effective. The difference with other systems is that the training drills have been used to teach proffesionals who work in a high risk enviroment. They cannot afford to waist time on things that do not work.

Paul Genge

[Robc]

Thanks. I'll check out the site. Stay safe on the street.

[Paul Genge]

You too. It's a strange old world out there.

[bukweetz]

Hi Paul,

I have just been looking at the defense clips from working
in confined spaces. You said in your post that the video showed
'clips of fast pre-emptive striking'. I didn't see this in the videos. My understanding is that pre-emptive strikes are about
identifying a threat e.g. someone about to strike you, and then
attacking them before they attack you. The video shows the agressor attacking first, and Vladimir reacting to this.

just a small but relevant point.

Regards,

Iain Phillips

[Paul Genge]

Checkout the clip called, 'On your requests.'

Not only does it show work at full speed it also shows pre-emptive striking.

Paul Genge

[Mekugi]

I have a question regarding the claim to older Russian martial arts.
I am curious to know how people dressed in armor (see below) move in the way demonstrated in videos on your website?

[Paul Genge]

The clothing you are wearing will always impact on your movement. You have a choice use muscle and tension to shift armour around or use good body movement. I have read of European knights performing physical feats in armour that sound unlikely to someone who has not trained to wear armour. I do know that the guys in Russia perform these movements wearing modern millitary equipment including body armour, webbing, ect.

I also work in an enviroment that requires the wearing of body armour and other equipment. Despite this the system functions well for me.

The way the the system is taught is as a functional system of self protection and development. As a result of this you would be hard pressed to find a practitioner who owns a 300 year old suit of armour let alone wears it to training. I therefore guess the question might go unanswered for some time.

Paul Genge

[ebudo]

Either that or the systema isnt as old as it says it is (dating from 10th/11th century by monks ). I dont believe that the movement that VV shows can be done with Armour (as shown in the picture) - but the movement presented by Soke Hatsumi has been demonstrated in armour (and the movement and speed and power were the same).


Why is it that most MA have to have a history steeped in mystisism (READ SMOKE AND MIRRORS). Only a few MA admit they are a hybrid and very young (for exmplae Krav Maga) and start to involve deep reliogious meaning.

[Paul Genge]

Having spent years in the bujinkan prior to getting involved with Vladimir I wonder what is everyones fasination with wearing armour and fighting with ancient and obsolete weapons? It is an ailment that has even manifested itself of late in the Russian System.

As for the religious aspect of what Michael teaches. It is a personal thing weither you take on board any of this. Vladimir certainly does not talk about it unless asked. A friend of mine who was involved in the Chinese martial arts prior to the system told me that his chinese instructor had a shrine to the monkey god in his shop. He would make offerings and pray to it. No one seemed to think this was odd. Would have this been the same if it was a cross?

Paul Genge

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by Paul Genge
Having spent years in the bujinkan prior to getting involved with Vladimir I wonder what is everyones fasination with wearing armour and fighting with ancient and obsolete weapons? It is an ailment that has even manifested itself of late in the Russian System.
Paul Genge

I don't think it's not as much a fascination as it is the study of the fact that old martial arts were designed around the tools of the time;including the use of weapons. The nature of hoplos revolves around this kind of thinking and examination. It is not implying that anything otherwise is "ineffective" or "worthless". For example, I would like the authentic Byzantine formula of "Greek Fire" and although napalm is much better, it is beside the point of wanting to know the authentic recipe that struck fear in entire fleets of warships.

[ebudo]

Paul,

"..I wonder what is everyones fasination with wearing armour and fighting with ancient and obsolete weapons?.."

I think if you do a search there have been a couple of ABH with swords in London. I've seen somebody cut to shreads with a machete - looked a bit like a sword to me. Just because swords arent used in everyday life (and remember these were expensive weapons so no everyone had them) - there are still alot of principles. Carrying on VV arguements - does that mean Ken (and its related arts) are not useful in this day and age ?

The old stuff is where the new stuff comes from (e.g. Just because we have GPS does that mean we still shouldnt learn to naigate manually ??)


I'm not even goin to start on the ROC (cultish) behaviour - if you want examples PM me.