Chiburi

[socho]

In Nakamura-ryu, we have eight 'official' ones, plus one variation. In MJER, there were two main ones, o-chiburi having a different variation for each of the first three main levels of forms, and yoko chiburi having a modern and koryu variation (so at least five, depending on how you count).

Dave

[pgsmith]

In Kobu Shin ryu we have seven, but one is used more than the others. As far as I have learned, Shin Shin Sekiguchi ryu has no "official" chiburi, but I have seen four different ones used by various high ranked practitioners.

Cheers,

[socho]

Originally posted by socho
...In MJER, there were two main ones, o-chiburi having a different variation for each of the first three main levels of forms, and yoko chiburi having a modern and koryu variation (so at least five, depending on how you count).

Dave

Never mind. Got to thinking about it, there are several more in MJER, in ukenagashi and tsukekomi, for example, plus a couple odd ones in the chuden set, and I am sure others that I have not thought of. Maybe a 'real' MJER (current?)guy can add them up?

Dave

[Richard Elias]

It's my understanding that chiburi is really just to get the bits and pieces off not the blood, the blood must be wiped away.

We have only one chiburi, and it invloves using futokorogami (the paper tucked into the front of the kimono) prior to the noto.

[Andy Watson]

Richard has spoke the words of wisdom surely...


Chiburi will never ever get all the blood off but surely just the gore that you don't want sticking to your fingers when you go to wipe off the blood.

Why not include the cloth/paper wiping bit in katas?

Apparently there is at least one ryuha which does actually demonstrate wiping the blood off (the name escapes me now). Otherwise I guess it's just another addition in the kata which can be taken for granted.

[Richard Elias]

"Apparently there is at least one ryuha which does actually demonstrate wiping the blood off (the name escapes me now)."

That would be us.

My teacher was Don Angier of Shidare Yanagi ryu.

Actually, I understand there are several ryu that have variations on the standard noto that allow for the use of paper to wipe the blade. But it is usually done as a part of the noto, not a seperate act in itself. In ours the wiping of the blade is seperate from the resheathing of the blade.

[Charles Mahan]

Hey Paul, that experiement with the blood and noto. I've got an important question.

How fresh was the blood? Blood that has been exposed to air at all will begin to coagulate immediately, so if the blood wasn't absolutely fresh, ie a live donor, then it's not really a valid test. Using the waza as a model for combat in a typical one on one or one on two encounter, the time between the blood contacting the blade and chiburi, at most 15 seconds go by. Forumulating a definitive test for this is gonna be difficult, because you have to extract fresh blood and perform the test within 15 seconds.

Personally I believe chiburi is only really meant to get the worst of it off. I believe a good bit more can be removed by the fingers of the left hand during noto(at least the way we do noto), and what is left is good enough until you can get away from the site of the fight and the potential for retribution from your enemies cohorts.

[kenkyusha]

Originally posted by Charles Mahan
snip
Personally I believe chiburi is only really meant to get the worst of it off. I believe a good bit more can be removed by the fingers of the left hand during noto(at least the way we do noto), and what is left is good enough until you can get away from the site of the fight and the potential for retribution from your enemies cohorts.

Er... have you seen what happens to blades with large-ish amounts of fresh blood left on for prolonged periods? They begin to oxidize fairly rapidly. Furthermore, it doesn't take a lot of blood to effectively 'glue' the ha to the hinoki of the inside of one's saya... seems like a dangerous prospect.

Be well,
Jigme