Ryu-ha that include Hanbo

[TIM BURTON]

Can anyone tell me the origins of the Hanbo and where it sits in respect of traditional Japanese weaponry.
Was it a specialised weapon? Are there systems solely devoted to Hanbo or is it only taught in conjunction with another art?

[Just some guy]

I can tell you what I know. As far as I can tell the hanbo isn't really taught as a specific art. Thought I do remember hearing of a hanbo ryu, if memroy serves me correctly then it is buried in Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu. Other than that I only know of a few schools that teach the hanbo as a skill. These are Hontai Yoshin Ryu and Kukishin Ryu though there may be others as well that I just don't know about. In both of these schools, there is much more to learn than just the hanbo. In fact the Kukishin ryu has relatively few techniques on the hanbo and the rokushaku bo has much more work on it. Read into that what you will.

As for the origen of the hanbo, that is kind of like asking where the rokushaku bo came from. There really isn't an easy answer to that one. a possibilits woudl go along the lines oof a possible bojutsu origen saying that the bo was taken from a spear or naginata that had its point broken off in combat. It's just as likely to brake such a weapon in the middle. beyond that I haven't a clue. Any takers?

[john mark]

http://koryu.com/guide/uchida.html

Hope this is helpful.

Best,

[Edited by john mark on 02-04-2001 at 12:24 PM]

[shinja]

Hello all,

I was flipping through Hatsumi's & Chambers' Hanbo book and had a couple of questions.

- Is this Chambers fellow still around?

- Are the techniques depicted in the book kihon or are they henka?

- I understand that SMR contains a hanbo system, is it as developed as what is depicted in the book? And at what stage in a student's training is the weapon taught?

thanks!

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by shinja

- Is this Chambers fellow still around?

- Are the techniques depicted in the book kihon or are they henka?

I don't know the SMR question, but for the other two I can answer.

Mr. Chambers is still around. He is located in Hawai'i

The techniques in this book are based on:
Asayama Ichiden ryu and maybe Tenshin Ko ryu - For the short stick

For the hanbo, it is based on henka.

[charlesl2]

The back of the book indicates that the techniques are from the Kukishin ryu, or something like that. I don't know how or if that relates to the Asayama Ichiden ryu (not saying it doesn't, I just don't know).

The tanjojutsu in SMR, I think, is a totally different animal, called Uchida ryu, and I only remember there being 12 kata for that, and all against a swordsman.

Chambers is still around, and teaches SMR jo in Honolulu. I remember him showing me a small amount of the Kukishin stuff a few years ago. I've heard other students with more experience with it jokingly refer to it as "Quintin's Pain Sticks." The stuff really hurts.

What's a "henka?" I thought that meant "modification" or something, but that doesn't seem to be the context.

-Charles Lockhart
Honolulu, HI

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by charlesl2
The back of the book indicates that the techniques are from the Kukishin ryu, or something like that. I don't know how or if that relates to the Asayama Ichiden ryu (not saying it doesn't, I just don't know).

I'm sorry, forgot to include Kukishin ryu for short stick. I was in a rush for a meeting.

There is a form that is based on Asayama Ichiden ryu hishigi. In Asayama Ichiden ryu the hishigi can be used on all taijutsu kata, but this is not taught until higher levels. If you look on page 100, the kata is called "hiki otoshi" and looks almost like the taijutsu kata "hiki otoshi".

Originally posted by charlesl2
What's a "henka?" I thought that meant "modification" or something, but that doesn't seem to be the context.

Variation is the context I was using. The original hanbo forms are against sword or short sword.

[charlesl2]

What's a "higishi?" Is that the smaller stick that the protagonist uses? I remember seeing something about an/the "eda koppa" technique(s?). I just don't know what that means.

By taijutsu ..., something similar to jujutsu? Sorry, not familiar with the term.

I'll check out the technique you're referring to.

I see what you mean now by henka. I always think of henka as "that tiny alteration the antagonist makes to his technique that gets the protagonist killed." I thought the original reference was asking if they were kihon or kata, and thinking that maybe in that context henka could mean kata. Just slow, I guess.

-Charles Lockhart
Honolulu, HI

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by charlesl2
What's a "higishi?" Is that the smaller stick that the protagonist uses? I remember seeing something about an/the "eda koppa" technique(s?). I just don't know what that means.

Don't know the exact meaning of "hishigi", but in Asayama Ichiden ryu and Tenshin Ko ryu (also called Shinto Tenshin ryu) it is a stick that's 8-10 inches long.

Originally posted by charlesl2
By taijutsu ..., something similar to jujutsu? Sorry, not familiar with the term.

It is the same as jujutsu. In Asayama Ichiden ryu it is refered as taijutsu.

[Chuck Clark]

Mr. "Shinja"

It is customary on E-Budo to sign your posts with your name so that we may know who we're communicating with.

I see by your profile that you listed Jiyushinkai Aikibudo as an affiliation. Welcome to the jo forum. I'm looking forward to knowing who you are so that we can communicate better.

Regards,

[shinja]

Sorry all.

hmm.... something is up with my profile. My signature seems to have disappeared and it won't let me edit it.

I'll have to email the e-budo administrator dude.


: Sensei, my name is Steven Bittle. I have just recently started study (within the last couple of weeks) in the Jiyushinkai with David Martin Sensei in OKC, OK.

Once again sorry for the confusion guys.

Steve

[Chuck Clark]

Again, Welcome Steven. I'm looking forward to meeting you soon. Stick with David, he's a good budoka and instructor.

Regards,

[Neil Hawkins]

As an aside, we use the term "hishigi" a lot in jujutsu to refer to a "crushing" joint lock as opposed to a twisting or hineri type of lock. Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu teach the same lock done with the hands, short (palm sized) sticks, tanbo, hanbo and even jo in some cases.

Obviously the stick adds an element of pain and leverage that is impossible with the hands alone, so I can relate to Charles' comment about "Quintin's pain sticks". The worst are leg or ankle locks. I can still literally "feel" the pain as I remember being locked repeatedly during a photo session about 13 years ago. I only have to look at the picture and I start limping!


I also find the book very useful, the stick is by far my favourite weapon!

Regards

Neil

[Meik Skoss]

As mentioned by other posters, "hishigi" means "crushing" and is a term found in a number of "unarmed" arts such as judo, jujutsu and aikido, as well as in some systems that use small concealed weapons.

I'm the one who, at the IJF Gasshuku in '93, first referred to Quintin Chamber's hanbo as his "Pain Stick(s)," as well as to units of pain (normally called "dols") as "quintins." If you've never had the pleasure, you must feel it to believe, or appreciate it. As was said in an earlier post, the leg, knee, and ankle techniques are the worst. There you are, without a leg to stand on and in an entire world of hurt; it will definitely make a believer out of you re: the efficacy of a simple length of wood.

I think a lot of Hatsumi's MIB weapons stuff is on the dodgy side, but he knows a thing or six about stick work, and he taught it to Chambers Sensei very well. It's a really good self-defense system.

[charlesl]

Hello M. Skoss,

Weird coincidence: this morning we were talking about pain, and SF brings up your units of pain scale. He was trying to remember how it was scaled, 1-10, 1-20, ?.

-Charles Lockhart
Honolulu, HI