$260M Down The Crapper

[Cady Goldfield]

Krusse,
If we're going to create jobs, let's create jobs that have an immediate and direct benefit to society. Instead of having a bunch of brainiacs figuring out what makes the sun work, we could retrain them to work on solar, wind and geothermal energy projects.

Or, if that isn't feasible because of the power grip the oil industry has on the American government's balls, we could instead train and re-employ them them to clean grafitti off park benches and statues, repair children's playground equipment, tend trees and gardens, and pick up dog poop from public sidewalks. I wouldn't mind spending $260M for that.

[Krusse]

Galilei f.ex. had little 'immediate' benefit to society. What benefits a society in the long term is hard to see.

All that 'repairing children's playground equipment' - which is important without doubt as well and jobs like that HAVE to be created, too- could be pretty obsolete, if our sun stopped working in a few years and nobody knew when and why and if there's a workaround like escaping to Alpha Centauri.

[Joseph Svinth]

You want to see your tax dollars at work?

How about landing C-130s on aircraft carriers? That count?

http://navysite.de/cvn/cv59.htm

[Dan Harden]

"I know nothing of these things. I work in the non-profit sector."

Cady Goldfield

****************************************

Government and Non-profit were the same last time I looked......

This of course does NOT apply to politicians. A Friend of mine had a VERY well known senator and a Junior senator on his yacht a few years back. The senior senator said. "David, if the people of this country ever knew what we were really doing down here they would come down and shoot us all."

To which my friend replied
" You guys spend upwards of 50 million to campaign for 50,000 -200,000 a year jobs. That seems to go unnoticed by the average Joe. Many people want you to take even more in tax dollars to support us all and provide government funded health-care, welfare and medicare in a grand socialism experiment. Amd while they ask their charities to reveal a dollar percentage administration cost-to dollars spent in the field- they let you guys go with "pounds of paper" reports that no one can understand (by design) and that allow conflicting analysis of the same research.
What part of that don't you understand? What sane people would passively accept our tax code? It's not even readable. Trust me-your jobs safe.
To me he added "Just what do you suppose they were doing on my boat to begin with? They were looking for money!"

I don't trust any of them...at all.
I try to vote for the ones who will take the lesser of my money.
They are happy to see us quibble from side to side. Nothing makes them happier than to hear us get caught up in demonizing the other side while rooting for our own. As if the other guys will magically solve our real troubles.
Its quite hilarious. And it keeps us from asking the unanswerable questions we should be asking them and demanding a higher standard.
Where's the clean bills-written with no pork?
Where's the line item veto?
That would cut to the heart of special interest and bribes.

Ain't ever gonna happen.
We are left with..
"Democrats are evil!"
and "Republicans don't get it."
And they could not be happier than to hear us debate it- while they go about their business.
Ohy!
Dan

[Cady Goldfield]

By non-profit sector, I mean the "do-gooder, goodie two-shoes, human service, charity" sector. Phthpt.
And, like I said, we have our own horror stories. They're just different than the government and industry ones.

[Joseph Svinth]

My theory is this: They do know, and They don't care.

Therefore, vote against all incumbents.

[charlesl]

As far as I understand it, the Stardust probe returning to Earth in December (I think..., it's the one that captured samples of comet effluvia) is pretty much the same design as the Genesis. Hopefully the problem with the Genesis wasn't one of design. I'm more interested in seeing those results.

[Victor Smith]

I'm always sad to realize most don't understand the worth to the space program.

First off the money isn't in the hardware. That's just stuff produced by the money.

The money goes into the marketplace, paying for employees working on the projects, companies providing the material, manufacturing, etc.

All of which keeps rolling into the economy.
The stuff they produce is incidental.

But the results, well if you took the same money and put it into home building plans for the poor (just an example picked a random) is there anyone with a straight face who can say it would produce more?

Having visionary programs, provides more than just spreading cash into the society. It offers chances for people to push themselves and use those programs too.

Besides, the pure business side of space research has paid for itself so many times from the resulting technological advances that trickle down into more everyday applications.

Heck, the creation of Tang alone makes all of it worthwhile!!!

And we're talking about chump change anway. The fluff in all government programs could pay for the space program many times over, and not cost a thing.....except from the pockets being lined.

But that is money invested in the economy too.

Being against space research isn't advanced morality, it's really more likely about GREED, wanting the cash for your own pet intersets, and the heck with others too.

After all if we abandon space, next we'll choose to abandon the Snail Dater, then the Dodo, and what's next?

[AdroitjimonII]

A couple hundred years from now will it matter?

Christopher Allen Williamson

[charlesl]

A couple hundred years from now will it matter?

The Space Program? Science?
Could. Could very easily matter a lot.

[Jamie Stokes]

trying to catch a falling stellite pod slowed by parachutes may be wacky, but has been done before.

1959, an Air Force c-119 caught the discovererXIV probe on the (planes) third try. Then it was winched aboard for a nice safe, soft landing at local airforce base.

www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/kh-1.htm if you want to type it into your search engines.

Or google the following "mid air recovery aircraft sateliite rentry"

most of which has the genesis mission up first, but there is a choice of 2300 documents to wade through.

I read years ago that the Americans got rather good at this, while the Russians lagged.

As for spin offs for science of NASA, hey, this computer, internet, you are currently using are some sort of spin off, directly or indirectly.

But thats just one opinion.
As fora waste of bucks, well, would it have been a waste if the parachutes worked? Quiet success, everyone goes home.

We only here about the bad news.

Cheers,
Jamie

[Bambi]

Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
How about landing C-130s on aircraft carriers? That count?

http://navysite.de/cvn/cv59.htm

no, thats counts as pretty damn sweet. Go Navy!

[AdroitjimonII]

yeh, we're a couple hundred years away from Columbus'
adventure and look where we are today.That's what I meant anyways.

I imagine they thought it was a bust to send out three ships and
only one make it back,with a vast majority of it's crew missing
and unacounted for.

I'm all for spending money on what seems to be senseless
endeavors because they most likely will end up as part of the
learning curve needed to ensure the survival of the species.