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Thread: Kwestionable "Ken jutsu"

  1. #31
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    EDITED: So as not to offend anyone. I think these folks might post here.
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

  2. #32
    dragnson Guest

    Default Re: Isn't...

    Originally posted by Alex Dale
    Doesn't "Lung Tsu" sound Chinese?

    Makes me laugh every time I see McDojo like these. Do they think they are legitimate? I'd love to go down and speak with the "sensei".


    -Alex Dale
    Your wish has been granted Alex Dale. I am currently fighting insurgents in Iraq but I'll be back state side around the end of 2005 or the beginning of 2006. Then, you can come speak to me as much as you want, OR... I'll be more than happy to come see you when I get back to the states.
    Since you and the rest of these "digital martial artists" don't have anything better to do than to bash other people in this pathetic thread, perhaps you can find the time to except my challenge since you and a few others in here have personally insulted my honor.
    We will settle this "the old way".
    Don't worry little man... I won't leave you hanging either.
    We have a date; count on it.
    To whomever sent me the email about this thread:
    thank you for coming forward. Sorry it took so long to get here but like I said, I'm tied up in Iraq at the moment.

  3. #33
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    Please post your real name, sir. Forum rules. God bless and keep you in your work overseas, by the way.
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

  4. #34
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    By the way, dargnson (Scott Stansell in your profile), I think threats are against forum rules, too.

    Your wish has been granted Alex Dale. I am currently fighting insurgents in Iraq but I'll be back state side around the end of 2005 or the beginning of 2006. Then, you can come speak to me as much as you want, OR... I'll be more than happy to come see you when I get back to the states.
    Since you and the rest of these "digital martial artists" don't have anything better to do than to bash other people in this pathetic thread, perhaps you can find the time to except my challenge since you and a few others in here have personally insulted my honor.
    We will settle this "the old way".
    Don't worry little man... I won't leave you hanging either.
    We have a date; count on it.
    To whomever sent me the email about this thread:
    thank you for coming forward. Sorry it took so long to get here but like I said, I'm tied up in Iraq at the moment.
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

  5. #35
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    Mr. Stansell,
    I usually disagree with those that like to make fun of others. However, if you are going to put goofy pictures on the internet and call it kenjutsu, you should expect people to make fun of it. It is very much like wearing an evening gown (complete with heels!) to go to the local pub, and then getting upset when people point and laugh.

    And rather than trying to explain why you wanted to post such pictures on the web, you threaten one (young) person out of the group. Did you fashion your dojo after the Cobra Kai on Karate Kid or what? While I greatly admire and profoundly thank you for putting your life on the line in Iraq, your budo definitely needs work sir. Rather than threaten kids, perhaps you should think more about what started this whole thing. (That would be your "kenjutsu" pictures)
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

  6. #36
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    Mr. Stansell [I believe it is],

    I believe you responded to my post with hostility because of my use of "quotation marks" around the word sensei. Just to clarrify, if it can be called as such, I was skeptical, judging by the photographs I saw, of the authenticity of the training, as were many of us other quote "koryu bunnies". Had I known you would have responded with a threat, I probably would have held my tongue. But now you're here.


    So.


    I, as a young budoka, don't appreciate the implication of your message. Not even implication: the direct threat. So, before we go on, I'd like to ask you: why I, an obvious young person (picture as the avatar, profile, etc) was singled out of all those who replied to the original posting. Is it honorable, ESPECIALLY as a soldier of the U.S. Army, to threaten one who is younger than you and would no-doubt be taken-down by yourself? I fail to understand how threatening me is upholding your honor. I'm kind of losing my direction in this reply, but also, is the point of you making it apparent that you are a soldier intended to be intimidating? While it is, naturally, it is uncalled for.


    -Alex Dale


    Also, if you still want to meet when you return, feel free to private message me or whatnot. However, no challenged has been issued. Your gas money, man. ^__^

    *EDIT* Ah yes, I almost forgot. When I said "Do they actually think they are legitimate?" I was genuinely posing the question. Do people practicing not-so-real koryu kenjutsu styles believe they are practicing a legit art?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Alex Dale; 12th November 2004 at 21:58.
    - Alex Dale

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Re: Isn't...

    Originally posted by dragnson
    Your wish has been granted Alex Dale. I am currently fighting insurgents in Iraq but I'll be back state side around the end of 2005 or the beginning of 2006. Then, you can come speak to me as much as you want, OR... I'll be more than happy to come see you when I get back to the states.
    Maybe you would appreiciate our bafflement, if you were to stumble on a website that purported to teach military styled FIBUA techniques, yet the insturctor freely admits that he has never served in the military. Then posts pictures of his training for real soldiers to have a look at.
    Nulli Secundus

    Ed Chart

  8. #38
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    I notice that Mr Stansell lists no information about his training or level achieved in his profile. I find that significant.
    You can threaten me if you like Mr Stansell, issue a challenge [it will be accepted]. However since I live in Australia its your [av] gas.

    As has been pointed out by smarter men than me, if you put yourself up to public scrutiny, expect to have your skills commented on. After looking at the pics posted I do not believe you or your compadres have the slightest idea of what constitutes JSA.

    As for Iraq- take care and watch your six.
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  9. #39
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    You can come play with me if you'd like. Drop me a line when you return, provided we don't meet over there first.
    David F. Craik

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Re: Isn't...

    Originally posted by dragnson
    ...these "digital martial artists"
    ...this pathetic thread
    ...Don't worry little man

    ...you and a few others in here have personally insulted my honor.
    You have an interesting concept of "honor."

    Among these "digital martial artists" as you call us there are several very high ranking members of classical Budo with legitimate ties to Japanese Koryu; recognized instructors of law enforcement and military personal; several military veterans, and a number of currently serving active duty personal; and so on.

    The Administrator of this very site is (or recently was) in Iraq, as are, or have been, several other of our members.

    And yet you come here posting your little "challenge." No, sir; you do not come across as a man of "honor." What was hurt was not your honor, but your ego.

    As has already been intimated, when you put up a web site (becoming a "digital martial artist" in the process), then you should expect that those in the Budo community will likely come across your site and comment on it. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Better yet, stop being a pretender and get thee to a dojo and find out what the Japanese Sword Arts truly are.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  11. #41
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    QUOTE]I usually disagree with those that like to make fun of others. However, if you are going to put goofy pictures on the internet and call it kenjutsu, you should expect people to make fun of it. It is very much like wearing an evening gown (complete with heels!) to go to the local pub, and then getting upset when people point and laugh.[/QUOTE]

    I usually don't post on threads like this, but I do have a quick question concerning the above. What reaction would have been appropriate for Mr. Stansell? If I could stay with Mr. Smith's analogy a bit longer, do I, as the gown wearing pub-goer, have a right to take issue with the manner of your rebuke, even though I have put myself in a patently ridiculous situation? I ask only because it seems quite a bit of derision was heaped on these people from a few photographs. It also seems the rebukes here weren't given in a didactic fashion, but rather for the sole purpose of getting a laugh at these people's expense. The usual retort is "They asked for it." So be it. I wouldn't expect, however, that those being laughed at will just sit back and take it because they post some "goofy pictures". Indeed, I would expect some backlash if I choose to question people in the manner it was done here. One may argue about the nature of the reaction here, but something negative was bound to happen. (Just as it has some many times in the past in such instances.)

    Now, I have nothing to do with these people. I study Shinto Muso-ryu jodo, and I also have some issues with what these people are doing from a training standpoint. It just seems to me the way it was done here was asking for a confrontation.

    Just my .02. Thanks for reading.


    Kevin Cantwell
    Last edited by K. Cantwell; 13th November 2004 at 14:15.

  12. #42
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    From 9th Dan Grandmaster Scott Stansell's site

    "Ken Jutsu (sword technique) are various and many. Lung Tsu Ryu Ken Jutsu is a modernized style of older ryu's or schools. We in the Sons of the Dragon have developed this particular style to meet the needs of the modern day warrior.

    Carrying of a sword in public is not practical and is in most cases, against the law. But many of the techniques can be adapted into using a katana length stick, which is why we practice with bokken's (wooden swords) more than we practice with "functional" katana's. Now most people don't usually carry a stick around everywhere they go. On the other hand, it's pretty common here in Louisiana to carry an ax handle or a sawed-off shovel handle in the back of the truck. During my years as a bouncer I have probably been attacked more often with an ax handle in the parking lot than I have with a beer bottle or a knife. (I've bounced some pretty rough places.)

    Learning Ken Jutsu has many attributes that take the martial artist into new realms and deeper understandings. Bushido, Iaido, and many standing Kamae's have deep roots that have many benefits."

    ummm, yeah.
    ok. good luck with that.

    Dave
    Dave Drawdy
    "the artist formerly known as Sergeant Major"

  13. #43
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    Kevin makes a good point. But I think Brian went to the crux of the matter. Yeah, if you poke fun at a big guy in a doo-rag, you should expect trouble. Probably get asked outside to settle it. But it doesn't really have anything to do with honor or integrity, just attitude.
    So let's back up a bit. Scott has many years of a kenpo style, plus practical experience as a bouncer. So teaching self-defense makes sense.
    Making up a sword style to go with it does not. Using a sword or bokken as a training tool so you will be better with an ax handle is ridiculous. A sword is not a blunt object, the physics of what it does and how it is used is not the same as swinging a shovel or a big stick. Calling it ken-jutsu is misleading and insulting. Call it 'Dragon Sword' or something. Marketing a made-up sword style to cash in on a fad is becoming a common and unfortunate practice. Wearing a hakama does not make it traditional, Japanese, or believeable. Nor does mixing Japanese and Chinese terms, ranks, or other stuff.
    The time is past when people can market 'made-up', 'modern eclectic' 'improved, practical' sword arts and be taken seriously. There is too large a body of people in the US that are affiliated with traditional schools with documented lineage.

    Dave
    Dave Drawdy
    "the artist formerly known as Sergeant Major"

  14. #44
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    All,


    I would like to apologize for my slanderous (is that a word?) remarks towards Mr. Stansell's school. I just get a bit agitated when I see apparent koryu kenjutsu teachers that *seem* to be teaching something less than legit. So, the rest I'll leave to the smarter and older ones out there to say (Mr Owens put it nicely).


    My comments in no way degrade your skills as an empty-hand fighter or a soldier. I think being a soldier is one of the noblest sacrifices a man can make.


    Thank you.


    -Alex Dale
    - Alex Dale

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Re: Isn't...

    Originally posted by dragnson
    Your wish has been granted Alex Dale. I am currently fighting insurgents in Iraq but I'll be back state side around the end of 2005 or the beginning of 2006. Then, you can come speak to me as much as you want, OR... I'll be more than happy to come see you when I get back to the states.
    Since you and the rest of these "digital martial artists" don't have anything better to do than to bash other people in this pathetic thread, perhaps you can find the time to except my challenge since you and a few others in here have personally insulted my honor.
    We will settle this "the old way".
    Don't worry little man... I won't leave you hanging either.
    We have a date; count on it.
    To whomever sent me the email about this thread:
    thank you for coming forward. Sorry it took so long to get here but like I said, I'm tied up in Iraq at the moment.
    Greetings!

    So, are we to assume that is you in the photographs with the do rag? I have to ask, is that a pimp cane in your left hand?

    By the way, threatening people is not only immoral and illegal, but you are threatening a forum full of authentic koryu and budo practicioners, in which many of us are/were veterans and peace officers. In my humble opinion, that transcends the issues of morality and legality and enters the realm of recklessness.

    If you really are who you claim to be, then I hope a year of deployment will mellow your resolve to come looking for trouble, lest you find it.

    Regards,
    Bernard Echiverri
    Bernard B. Echiverri

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