Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Rape of Nanjing comic publication suspended

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sagey Plains, WY
    Posts
    900
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Rape of Nanjing comic publication suspended

    Comics fans/free speech advocates/Japan-watchers take note:
    Publisher Suspends 'Rape of Nanjing' Comic. I boldfaced some particularly interesting lines.

    From Yahoo news
    TOKYO (Reuters) - A Japanese publisher will suspend a comic series in its popular weekly magazine after receiving angry protests over its characterization of the 1937 "Rape of Nanjing," in which Japanese soldiers brutally massacred Chinese civilians.

    Tokyo-based Shueisha Inc. received nearly 200 angry phone calls and letters protesting its portrayal of scenes of the killings in its comic "Kuni ga Moeru" (The Country is Burning), published on Sept. 22, a company spokesman said Thursday.

    "We have received suggestions and protests from people from all walks of life including local politicians," said a company spokesman. "There were inappropriate parts and we decided to suspend the comic series for the time being."

    Japanese politicians have often incurred Beijing's wrath by challenging China's account of the massacre, called the Rape of Nanjing, in which Beijing says as many as 300,000 Chinese men, women and children were slaughtered by rampaging Japanese troops in the former Chinese capital.

    The 1948 Tokyo war crimes tribunal found Japanese troops killed 155,000 in Nanjing, mainly women and children.

    The comic series, featuring the life of a Japanese bureaucrat in the tumultuous times of the early 20th century, had been carried by popular Weekly Young Jump. The Shueisha spokesman said about 2 million copies of the magazine had been sold each week.

    A group of 37 members of local assemblies protested to the publisher earlier this month, arguing that the Rape of Nanjing had never taken place and that the depiction of the scene in the comic distorted history.

    The publisher plans to change or delete some parts of the comic when it publishes the series in book form, the spokesman said, without elaborating.

    Japan-China relations remain bedeviled by the two nations' wartime past. China suffered from Japanese military aggression in the 1930s and 1940s.

    Bilateral ties have been further strained by Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's annual visits to Tokyo's Yasukuni Shrine, which honors war criminals along with other war dead.

    Koizumi has visited the shrine each year since taking office in 2001, most recently on New Year's Day, a visit condemned by China and South Korea, also a victim of Japan's wartime aggression.
    Keep me posted please, your comments welcome.
    J. Nicolaysen
    -------
    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    North Queensland Australia. On the barrier reef.
    Posts
    1,253
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Denial is a wonderful thing. Certain right wing types like to believe that the atrocities against allied POWs and civilians were made up by those dastardly occidentals - dishonourable, uncultured roundeyes obviously are being racist. Don't be telling the truth about the past. The People of the Land of The Gods is still run by the very people [or their protoges] who in policy or by action perpetrated these deeds. the very people who were telling their population that they were still winning in late 1944.
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Where it's real hot
    Posts
    273
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    This disgusts me.. I read The Rape of Nanking some time ago...and to this day, what happened there chills me. I've read in many sources that Nanking is either not taught at all in Japanese history classes in Japan, or it's touched on by, "Japan seized the Chinese capital in pre-WW2."

    Unfortunately, many of the "guiltless" are on their way out of life and don't seem to be terribly eager to share their stories.
    Systema

  4. #4
    Mekugi Guest

    Default

    A group of 37 members of local assemblies protested to the publisher earlier this month, arguing that the Rape of Nanjing had never taken place and that the depiction of the scene in the comic distorted history.

    Yeah, and German Deathcamps never existed. This is exactly the type of stupidity that Japan needs to stand up against. The fact of the matter is, Japan has VERY little feel for their own history and even less outside their little island. The idea is that they don't know, they con't care to know, they don't need to know.

    I end up helping my cousins with their history lessons in my family simply because no one really knows what is what. For instance, my family was under the opinion that China was a republic and never heard of the "cultural revolution". Needless to say, I raised some eyebrows when I showed them some information regarding the Korea war as well. They have certainly changed their tune about "all war is bad...bad USA." My cousins history teacher,a romantic fascist it seems, believes that the invention of the rubber pump bubble for blood pressure sleeves is far more important than the cold war. "Completely and utterly moronic" is a descriptor that comes to mind.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    41
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    This in unfortunate, but true. Japanese history classes tend to focus strongly on internal events, hardly touching on how Japan fits into the world picture. Though Japanese know about the atrocity at Pearl Harbor and many feel that it was right of the US to end the war (but not to use the A-bombs), I have yet to meet one who isn't the at least doubtful that the Rape of Nanking even occured.
    -Jason Kumar

    Georgia Tech Kendo Club
    www.cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/kendoclub

  6. #6
    Finny Guest

    Default

    What a coincidence that this topic should come up now. I've just completed a paper on the recent trends of historical study of the Nanjing incident, particularly in Japan.

    I should state for the record that I am in no way excusing or trying to minimise the impact of the Japanese atrocities, and am for the most part simply reproducing statements from articles by prominent historians.

    First of all, Iris Chang's 'The Rape of Nanking' can only be described as frequently fabricated and/or fictitious, so basing one's judgement of the incident on this work is quite a way off-base.

    The argument that the Japanese have little or no feel for their own history is also a little flawed - Japanese historical research of the Nanking incident is undoubtedly more advanced than that of China or the English speaking countries - although this is in the process of changing.

    Undoubtedly high-schools in Japan do gloss over the incident, a Japanese exchange student I spoke to told me that she had learned much more regarding Japanese wartime history since arriving in Australia than she ever learned at high-school.

    Although the research in Japanese remains superior to that in English and Chinese, this was not always the case. Originally, much of the primary material on Nanjing was written and published in English. However, for decades these were only available in Japanese translations - this has recently begun to change.

    There are three main schools of thought regarding the Nanjing incident in Japan. These are known as the illusion school, the middle of the road school, and the great massacre school. It's pretty self-explanatory where they each stand.

    The illusion school maintains that as few as 60-80 civilians were murdered in Nanjing, perhaps as many as several thousand (at most).

    The middle of the road school argues for between 13 000 and 38 000-42 000. It should be noted that most western historians probably fit into the middle of the road school.

    The Great Massacre school argues, in the words of one of it's leading advocates, Kasahara Tokushi, that "over 100 000, perhaps nearly 200 000 or even more" (civilians) were killed in Nanjing. It should also be noted that Iris Chang argues for a number far higher than even that of the Great Massacre school, and also that it is clear that The Great Massacre school has begun to revise it's figures for the scale of the killings quite dramatically downwards - due to a large extent to the publishing of John rabe's diary (The Good German of Nanking: The Diaries of John Rabe (1998)).

    There is clearly a huge debate taking place these days regarding the scale of the Nanjing incident. Difficulties arise in defining Nanjing itself, the time period of the 'incident', the definition of 'civilian' - did the Chinese custom of using units of what were known as 'plain-clothes soldiers' (soldiers fighting in civilian clothes) contribute to the execution of civilian men of soldierly age? Were plain clothes soldiers who had discarded their weapons still regarded as combatants or as civilians? What about the execution of plain clothes men hiding among the populace WITH weapons? legal?

    There is no doubt about the strain created between the two nations by this incident. The Chinese figure of 300 000 is set in stone (literally, at the entrance of the Memorial for the Compatriot Victims of the Japanese Massacre in Nanjing), no-one involved in serious historical research on the subject agrees with that figure.

    The Great Massacre school have basically revised their figures to around 120 000 at most. The majority of western historians agree on a figure somewhere between 30 000 and 50 000.

    Just an FYI, and sorry for the long post. I just think that it's important for history to not be clouded by ideologues. There is no doubt the rape of Nanjing happened. There is no doubt it was a true demonstration of brutality. But there is also no doubt that the extent of the brutality has been exaggerated by people intent on painting the Japanese as monsters - be careful what you believe.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Sierra Vista
    Posts
    637
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Dear Finny,

    I worked for Sakushin Gakuin, Japan's largest private school from 2001-2003.

    I read the Japanese history books given out by the government (I have a sankyu license so I could handle the junior high school books).

    Pearl Harbor? Chinese, Korean atrocities?

    Noooo, we're going to talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki in today's class people and about American aggression.

    From 1999-2000 I was also the student of one Takeda Shigeo in Echigawa, Japan.
    An officer for the Japanese forces that fist occupied Nanjing.
    I have copies of trophy pictures from his diary that would give you nightmares.

    The Japanese thought they were superior and commited atrocities like the American puritans, the British against the Aborigines, etc. etc.

    Japan, like every other country is trying to "spin" it away.


    It's all about spin Finny, not the truth....

    Not monsters but politics....

    It's about giving people something to hate and something to rally behind.
    Jody Holeton
    --------------
    OPEN 24 hours, 7 days a week,
    ALL JODY, ALL the TIME

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    780
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    One need only work at a true Japanese company, and experience the joys of Japanese management to understand that the possibility of such a thing is strong. As for me, I know someone who was there, and not on the Japanese side.

    Ironically, after being tortured by his own govt during the Cultural revolution he bears less ill will towards Japan. In his own words "It was a war, after all."
    Daniel Madar

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Sherman's Lagoon
    Posts
    283
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    You know...the japanese mindset has waaaaay to much emphisis on pride and saving face. Admitting or apologising is a shame...

    My father always said to me, "A man may make mistakes...but a Real Man will accept these mistakes and learn from them."

    I think many in the old guard haven't accepted or acknowledged their mistakes. Couldn't help but notice the irony when they protested the kidnapping of japanese citizens in Iraq as barbaric and evil, seeing as how they kidnapped thousands of women to be raped and tortured repeatedly in their field brothels.

    Still...denial is a wonderful thing...yup, keep denying the war crimes, keep denying the child molesters, keep denying teenage prostitutes, keep denying the corruption...etc etc...lay down in blissfull denial as your house burns down around you.
    Last edited by KhawMengLee; 19th October 2004 at 12:19.
    Khaw Meng Lee

    "See my kote! See my kote! (kicks opponent in the crotch) Well ya should have been watching my foot!"
    Meng just before being given hansoku.

  10. #10
    Finny Guest

    Default

    Perhaps I should repost a couple of things.

    "I should state for the record that I am in no way excusing or trying to minimise the impact of the Japanese atrocities, and am for the most part simply reproducing statements from articles by prominent historians."

    and

    "There is no doubt the rape of Nanjing happened. There is no doubt it was a true demonstration of brutality."

    I do understand that it happened. When you talk about spin, Jody, you should perhaps think about what has been painted as the 'truth' of the Rape of Nanjing. That is to say, ideologues have SPUN the truth to make the Japanese seem like murderous monsters on a HUGE scale.

    Undoubtedly they were murderous monsters. I understand the indoctrination, I understand the idea that they thought of the Chinese as unhuman.

    But researching the facts shows that there were NOT hundreds of thousands of civilians killed at Nanjing. It's that simple. Just about every historian in the world agrees on that - there were tens of thousands. Does that make it any less of a crime? I don't know, all I'm doing is posting some facts regarding recent research.

    The only point I was trying to make is that activist groups and people like Iris Chang, have created this aura surrounding the Rape of Nanjing in the west particularly, which is based on some mistruths. The fact that you guys have posted stuff trying to convince me "I'm" wrong (even though I simply reproduced stuff from articles by leading historians) kind of proves my point.

    Jody, I wasn't talking about research by high-school teachers, I'm sure you understand that. I also wrote:

    "Undoubtedly high-schools in Japan do gloss over the incident, a Japanese exchange student I spoke to told me that she had learned much more regarding Japanese wartime history since arriving in Australia than she ever learned at high-school."

    I know this sort of stuff is barely mentioned in high schools.

    I was refering to well-known, tenured historians.

    Once again, I'm not denying anything, NO-ONE's denying anything. Simply providing some info.

    And the fact that you've seen some photos which show the results of this tragedy says NOTHING about the scale of the tragedy. That's the only point I was debating. The scale. The Chinese say 300, 000 civilians were killed, the apologists in Japan say 120, 000 at most, and just about every respected historian who's covered this topic in recent years has said somewhere between 30, 000 and 60,000.

    Those are the facts. How I can be accused of denial is beyond me.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Sierra Vista
    Posts
    637
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Dear Mr. Finn,

    I am NOT accusing you of denial.

    I am currently reading Howard Zinn's, "A People's History of the United States."
    Numbers are hard to talk about 50 years later, especially with the masters of propaganda thrown into the mix.

    From the Japanese news clippings, pictures, post cards, martial arts styles CREATED from the atrocities (Nakamura-ryu, jukendo, etc.), Unit 731 tactics....

    I would say the 100 of thousands in the LEAST.

    There were atrocities. We can agree on that.

    I think we can also agree that almost every nation inflicts those types of atrocities on the weak or the unprepared.

    Japan, AMerica, China, Vietnam, will spin whatever inforamtion at hand for there uses and for there own gain.

    Like Stalin, Ho Chi Min, Nixon...

    Will we ever know the true numbers?

    I don't think so.

    I think we should agree NOT to let atrocities like these happen again....

    But that is easy to write...

    As things happen in Chechnya, the Sudan and Brazil....
    Jody Holeton
    --------------
    OPEN 24 hours, 7 days a week,
    ALL JODY, ALL the TIME

  12. #12
    Finny Guest

    Default

    I understand Jody.

    Rereading my last post I realised I came off as being quite (needlessly) defensive.

    Reading news clippings, pictures, postcards and extrapolating from MA styles is not really accurate research, however, and I guess my point is that there ARE people researching oral accounts, burial records, data sampling, and army field reports, and these people estimate somewhere below 100, 000.

    Well below.

    I understand that due to the brutality shown by the Japanese, and the degree of sadism involved can affect people's judgement, I guess I was trying to say that one should look beyond that at the current research and draw one's own conclusions.

    Truly it was a serious tragedy, and I couldn't agree more about working to not let these sort of things happen again.

    It just seems endless, though. The Rape of Nanjing happens, then people say "well you can't protest the beheading of kidnapping victims in Iraq because you were brutal towards the Chinese (I know that's not what you were saying, KhawMengLee.)"... people brutalise Americans because of the actions of their government, US government invades sovreign countries....it just seems to never end.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sagey Plains, WY
    Posts
    900
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    TY for all comments, the discussion has been illuminating.

    If anyone in Japan can find a copy of the manga in question, censored or not, please pm me and I will pay you to send it to me. TY again.
    J. Nicolaysen
    -------
    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Sierra Vista
    Posts
    637
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Dear Mr. Finn,

    It does end.

    People need to be informed and people need to say "no" and standup to oppressors.

    I too would like a copy of this comic BUT it may pander to the whole "rape" fetish found in Korea and Japan.
    Jody Holeton
    --------------
    OPEN 24 hours, 7 days a week,
    ALL JODY, ALL the TIME

  15. #15
    Mekugi Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by Finny
    I just think that it's important for history to not be clouded by ideologues. There is no doubt the rape of Nanjing happened. There is no doubt it was a true demonstration of brutality. But there is also no doubt that the extent of the brutality has been exaggerated by people intent on painting the Japanese as monsters - be careful what you believe.
    Okayyy...
    So you think that the Japanese have a sense of history...that they are just now choosing to ignore it.

    Please explain why, despite those upper-echelon individuals conducting radical research compared to the conservative ideal, that the general population has not known about it for the last 50 years? Why, oh why, are there so many politicians and aristocrats attempting to maintain the reverse-revisionaism in Japan? Why is it that 80% of the people I talk to explain what Japan did in WWII other than the war in the Pacific?

    Of course, there is a great deal about the tragedy of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan...comic books, video, testimony, TV Docos. Until very recently has there been any real press on Japan's involvement in China at the social level. Period.

    Furthermore, explain to me then why there is such a cover up of the 1923 Korean Massacre? How is it that most people here have never heard of this event, or this research:
    http://www.kimsoft.com/2003/kanto-1923-massacre.htm

    Unfortunately, you're comparing "liberal historians" to the common people, common knowledge and the society at large. It will not hold water when you get down to the grass roots level.


    I guess I was trying to say that one should look beyond that at the current research and draw one's own conclusions.
    Umm...this isn't possible, if you think about it.
    Last edited by Mekugi; 20th October 2004 at 09:12.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •