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Thread: Mas Oyama for real?

  1. #46
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    Yeah, that version makes more sense.

  2. #47
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    With my reference to Jon Bluming I just wanted to give another picture of Mas Oyama then the one depicted in the first article. I did not mend that bluming is an authority of some sorts and he does not hold the only truth. And yes bluming has a small vocabulary and uses !!!…le etc a lot. And he has a lot of little skirmishes with other people like Loek Hollander (current leader of the kyokushin org. in Holland) etc etc.

    The thing is, why do people always want such strong figureheads in MA. The always must be the strongest crushing rocks, bears, bulls with one hand. Or just with the stare of their eyes.

    Isn’t it enough that Oyama developd a beautiful system that added something to MA in the world. (influence on K1, other forms of karete etc.).

    Just my thoughts.
    Bob.


  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob van Tuyn
    ...........
    The thing is, why do people always want such strong figureheads in MA. The always must be the strongest crushing rocks, bears, bulls with one hand. Or just with the stare of their eyes.

    Isn’t it enough that Oyama developd a beautiful system that added something to MA in the world. (influence on K1, other forms of karete etc.).

    Just my thoughts.

    Agreed.
    This is what I was saying in a previous post. In my every so humble opinion I feel Oyama did far more for Karate and spreading it through out the world than Funakoshi even dreamed of. It wasn’t Funakoshi that spread Karate through out the world it was Oyama. The fact that Oyama had dojo in almost every country in the world attests to it.
    Funakoshi on the other hand had a few dojo in Japan and that’s about it. He died in the 1950’s before Karate even became popular in the West. I think the first dojo started popping up in the US around the early 1960’s and then boomed in the 70’s, 80’s.
    Oyama’s legacy of spreading Karate (albeit his version of it) through out the world is more important than some of the comic book-esque claims and stories that surround him and perpetuated by some of his students.

    (Just as a note....Oyama was against K-1)

  4. #49
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    I am also aware of his opinion and comments about my teacher and which moderator said something.

    So how much of what Bluming says about Mas Oyama is untrue? Some of it? All of it?

    You're a big boy. Use what he says about your teacher S. oyata and take it from there....and then read his book and decide for yourself.

  5. #50
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    1) Not really interested in it, however, it’s obvious there is some bad blood between you.
    2) Actually I wanted to hear your version of it since you said “Bluming's book is an interesting read but not a reliable source.” I was wondering which parts you know for a fact to be untrue.
    3) But he did train with Oyama and has rank under his system correct?
    1.) Incorrect. It's not an issue these days. The article where he mentions the Florida reps is in the past. That 's why I am not going to argue-- especially with someone who doesn't know the facts--nor bash him for something he said three years ago.

    2.) His book is worth checking out and I would encourage others to do so. Lot's of good pics too.
    However, for reasons I stated earlier, I no longer consider him a reliable source.

    3.) He sure did. In karate, the bulk of his formal training, around 1959 -1961, while in Japan, a whole two years. And no doubt he did some follow-up visits with his sensei here and there.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    You're a big boy. Use what he says about your teacher S. oyata and take it from there....and then read his book and decide for yourself.
    Bustillo I have noticed that in more than a few of your replies to me you like to make snide comments or take little jabs when replying to my posts. If you would like to trade snipes just let me know and we can run this thread into the trash can. Up to you.
    I have heard his comments and could careless what he thinks of my teacher, especially since he has never met him. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    1.) Incorrect. It's not an issue these days. The article where he mentions the Florida reps is in the past. That 's why I am not going to argue-- especially with someone who doesn't know the facts--nor bash him for something he said three years ago.

    2.) His book is worth checking out and I would encourage others to do so. Lot's of good pics too.
    However, for reasons I stated earlier, I no longer consider him a reliable source.

    3.) He sure did. In karate, the bulk of his formal training, around 1959 -1961, while in Japan, a whole two years. And no doubt he did some follow-up visits with his sensei here and there.
    1) I see.
    2) I was hoping you could support your comment with some specific examples. I would have rather heard your reasons for saying he is not a reliable source instead of just saying go read his book. It doesn’t shed much light on why you think and say he is not reliable. I would like to check it out but haven’t seen it in any bookstores here.
    3) Only 2 years……Not exactly a long time is it……

  7. #52
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    Bustillo I have noticed that in more than a few of your replies to me you like to make snide comments or take little jabs when replying to my posts. If you would like to trade snipes just let me know and we can run this thread into the trash can. Up to you.
    I have heard his comments and could careless what he thinks of my teacher, especially since he has never met him. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    2) I was hoping you could support your comment with some specific examples. I would have rather heard your reasons for saying he is not a reliable source instead of just saying go read his book. It doesn’t shed much light on why you think and say he is not reliable. I would like to check it out but haven’t seen it in any bookstores here.
    3) Only 2 years……Not exactly a long time is it……
    Snide remarks? Jabs? ..Run the thread into the trash can... Why?

    On contraire my friend. You don't mind his comments on others but get ruffled when Oyayta is brought up. It doesn't really matter what you've rather heard...I was not the one who made the comment about your teacher. You know the saying... don't balme the messenger and all that.
    You kept trying to draw me in to rehash old news. I chose not to bite. Therefore, so you'd understand, hitting close to home, I merely gave you an example you could relate to on how he gauges other instructors.

    I said it before, twice already and used the Florida incident you highlighted as an example. I support my comment based on my personal experience with him and on his tendancy to go over the top criticizing everyone else. Over the top is not reliable. It can't be said more simple than that yet you want me to go further. To go further as you want me to do would be like taking the bait from a troll and it isn't necesary. And we certainly don't want to ruin this thread now do we.

    I gave my opinion, gave a couple of examples without rehashing old news. Now go research and decide for yourself. ASk Mr. Joey Svinth to send you a copy of Bluming's book. It is interesting to read.

    BTw two years is plenty to forgive and forget. I'm fine with it.

  8. #53
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    Isn't Yoshida Kotaro the mysterious teacher (one of the teachers) of Richard Kim?

    Rob


    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    Can never quite get any information on the relationship between Oyama and Yoshida Kotaro, though. There is this whole piece about connections with the Yakuza and such. However, there is also that connection between the Yakuza and the Ultranationalists as well. That trail just goes so far and then goes cold. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog Mitchell
    I tell you what, my head would get big if someone was talking shi-to about me

    HEY!

    Rob

  10. #55
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    Just as a note....Oyama was against K-1



    Ofcourse he was against it.He was being cut out of the majority of all the revenue generated by this big extravaganza event.At the same time most of the elite kyokushin fighters were abandoning the traditional kyokushin type format which did not pay fighters much to begin with,in favor of this new hybrid kickboxing movement that dished out the big bucks. $$$$$$.
    Last edited by hectokan; 19th July 2005 at 17:06.
    Hector Gomez
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Alvelais
    Isn't Yoshida Kotaro the mysterious teacher (one of the teachers) of Richard Kim?

    Rob

    Yep.

    He also bestowed menkyo kaiden on Oyama for Daito Ryu.
    LeTerian Bradley

    There are no excuses on the mat, in the cage, or on the battlefeild! Train wisely!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    1) Snide remarks? Jabs? ..Run the thread into the trash can... Why?

    2) On contraire my friend. You don't mind his comments on others but get ruffled when Oyayta is brought up. It doesn't really matter what you've rather heard...
    3) I was not the one who made the comment about your teacher. You know the saying... don't balme the messenger and all that.
    4) You kept trying to draw me in to rehash old news. I chose not to bite. Therefore, so you'd understand, hitting close to home, I merely gave you an example you could relate to on how he gauges other instructors.

    5) I said it before, twice already and used the Florida incident you highlighted as an example. I support my comment based on my personal experience with him and on his tendancy to go over the top criticizing everyone else. Over the top is not reliable. It can't be said more simple than that yet you want me to go further.
    6) To go further as you want me to do would be like taking the bait from a troll and it isn't necesary.

    And we certainly don't want to ruin this thread now do we.

    I gave my opinion, gave a couple of examples without rehashing old news. Now go research and decide for yourself. ASk Mr. Joey Svinth to send you a copy of Bluming's book. It is interesting to read.

    BTw two years is plenty to forgive and forget. I'm fine with it.
    1) Yes, snide remarks....like the one I highlighted. The “You’re a big boy” comment.
    2) Actually I don’t care and no I don’t get “ruffled” when he is mentioned. It would seem you actually threw his name in to this thread (post #31 made by you) in the hope that I would get “ruffled” in order to distract me so you would not have not to answer the question I asked you “Which part(s) of Bluming's information is incorrect?” (notice I wrote information not “opinion”) to which you have yet to give any specific examples and only cut-n-pasted a couple of his opinions on people. “Opinions” are not fact, and since this thread is about Oyama and some of the events in his life that people would like to know whether they are fact or fiction. You made the comment that Blumming has given incorrect information in his book, I am asking for what “information” not “opinion” is incorrect.
    3) As I said before. I don’t care what his “opinion” on my teacher is.
    4) No. I would like you to give a specific answer to the question I originally asked you instead of being told to “go read his book”. I can read it cover to cover but it still won’t answer the question I originally asked you and that is……“Which part(s) of Bluming's information is incorrect?”
    5) The only reason the Florida Issue was brought up is because it was in Blumming’s article with your name in it. If you would rather not comment on that part of the article that’s fine.
    6) Hahahahaha….Now isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black!

  13. #58
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    1) Yes, snide remarks....like the one I highlighted. The “You’re a big boy” comment.
    2) Actually I don’t care and no I don’t get “ruffled” when he is mentioned. It would seem you actually threw his name in to this thread (post #31 made by you) in the hope that I would get “ruffled” in order to distract me so you would not have not to answer the question I asked you

    2a)....since this thread is about Oyama and some of the events in his life that people would like to know whether they are fact or fiction. You made the comment that Blumming has given incorrect information in his book, I am asking for what “information” not “opinion” is incorrect.

    4.) I would like you to give a specific answer to the question I originally asked you instead of being told to “go read his book”. I can read it cover to cover but it still won’t answer the question I originally asked you and that is……“Which part(s) of Bluming's information is incorrect?”
    I see...it was the "you're a big boy" that annoyed you. I apologize. sensitive isn't he.

    2. Assumptions and accusations, you're off-base. The same can be said about you highlighting my name in bold in the article but I don't consider it a big deal. I took it as you had no other intention other than to make sure I didn't miss it. Hmm. However it seems when it hit close to home it was a problem for you.


    2.a) & 4.) Try to avoid getting agitated so easily and maybe you'll understand. My original comment was that he wasn't a reliable source. I already answered the question twice on how I based my opinion.
    Last edited by Bustillo, A.; 20th July 2005 at 12:32.

  14. #59
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    I see...it was the "you're a big boy" that annoyed you. I apologize. sensitive isn't he.

    2. Assumptions and accusations, you're off-base. The same can be said about you highlighting my name in bold in the article but I don't consider it a big deal. I took it as you had no other intention other than to make sure I didn't miss it. Hmm. However it seems when it hit close to home it was a problem for you.


    2.a) & 4.)Stop getting agitaed so easily and maybe you'll understand. My original comment was that he wasn't a reliable source.

    3) I already answered the question twice on how I based my opinion.
    1) I see you can’t even make an apology with out making a snide comment.
    2) Is that so….
    3) Am I agitated? Funny I don’t feel agitated.
    4) Yes you cut-n-pasted some of Jon Bluming’s opinions on people and told me go to read his book….I remember. All I asked was which part of Bluming’s claims about Oyama were untrue or false and if you could point out which ones….


    Bustillo,

    You made a comment with an air of authority on the subject of this thread, then when I asked for clarification you baulked at an answer and started making snide comments towards me.
    People don’t normally get so defensive when asked to clarify information they have posted.

    Just a couple of questions though.

    1) Did you ever meet Oyama?
    2) Did you ever train with Jon Bluming? Why would you mail copies of your rank certificates to Jon Bluming and ask him for dan rank?

  15. #60
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher

    Bustillo,

    1.)You made a comment with an air of authority on the subject of this thread, then when I asked for clarification you baulked at an answer and started making snide comments towards me.
    2.)People don’t normally get so defensive when asked to clarify information they have posted.

    Just a couple of questions though.

    A) Did you ever meet Oyama?
    B) .... to Jon Bluming and ask him for dan rank?
    1.) & 2.) I simply made a comment like everyone else on here. When you asked I answered that my opinion was based on my personal experience with him. I specifically stated I didn't want to elaborate further because it'd be trashing him three years after the fact needlessly. (Please note this is the third time I answer the same question.)

    A.) Mas Oyama, no. Shigeru Oyama and his brother, yes, M. Monaco, yes, and a few othesr from the old KK organization. Ninomiya, of Enshin karate, obviously, as well as many former ex-Ashihara reps. Be assured Bluming was not H. Ashihara's teacher.

    B.) This is only drumming things up from the article. Is this what you really want to get at? I mentioned in an earlier post, something to the effect that his version is loaded with false statements. Besides, even if I wanted it's too long and complicated to list the actual chain of events.

    Nonetheless, think about it for a second. Do you actually believe I, or anyone else can ask for a dan rank? What organization works this way? And, in the event someone did request rank, what does that say for the Head Man giving dan ranks out just because someone asked.
    Last edited by Bustillo, A.; 20th July 2005 at 13:44.

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