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Thread: Help choosing a koryu

  1. #16
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    Oh you're in the JET program?

    That means you're on a three year contract with your local board of education. I know it's a bit premature, but are you thinking about staying longer than your contracted three years?

    Hope to meet you soon.

  2. #17
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    While I've not had much exposure to training in Japan outside of the Bujinkan, I can tell you that you're getting good advice here. Even within Booj, different schools have different approaches, and some of the things here that I have seen would apply there.

    Japanese is the biggest thing (you can't possibly imagine), and just remember that everything you've learned up until touching down at Narita is probably wrong. (Only after 2 weeks was I able to beging to have normal conversations with my in-laws because I was using -masu all the time and they were using simple form, for example.)

    Getting used to being there can be good, but picking up a generic aikido, judo or kendo class or two may be good enough to give you the local flavour of classes in Japan and ease the transition. May also end up giving you some social contacts, which are invaluable in settling in. Nothing like walking around Ginza alone on a Saturday, not undstanding a thing, to make you feel down. If all else fails, buy a copy of the Japan Times and ride around on the Yamanote or Chuo lines or sit in a Starbucks where you see lots of single office ladies, you'll get picked up for free language lessons, I guarantee. On the other hand, they will not want to hear about your budo, so develop other local interests that you can talk about to avoid being labled 'budo no otaku'.

    Doesn't Roy Ron have a Genbukan school in Tokyo?

    Russ, you all going to do another Denshukai next year?

    J. Vlach, Amsterdam

  3. #18
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    Well Ben ,

    Not having enough material in the Genbukan/KJJR curriculum ? I doubt it.
    Bad manners asking around without consulting your sensei first.

    Sincerely,
    Peter Vermeeren
    The true gentleman seeks things in himself,The inferior man seeks things in others
    Aprender Artes Marciales desde casa
    Bumon artes marciales y defensa personal

  4. #19
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    Post Well...Not really...

    Hello Peter.
    On the contrary, there is more than enough material to train in with the Genbukan.....There is no end to the stuff we have to learn here...However, I have wanted to see Koryu in particular since before I started training in the Genbukan....Being in England means that the amount of possible Koryu on offer to me is virually zero. Since I will be in Japan it is (To me at least) rather silly not to follow my dream...No?
    As for speaking to Tanemura Sensei (I presume that was who you meant?), as a Kyu rank I have had no contact with him...So have not been able to ask his view. When I manage to get to Honbu dojo I shall..But until then the only option open to me is here...And I believe there is no question of this being bad manners at all...I am curious...It is a chance of a lifetime and one that I would not miss for the world...I intend NO disrespect to anyone. Especially Tanemura Sensei...But my situation has meant that this is the only way to find out what I wanted to know...
    I see no problem here.
    Regards.
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  5. #20
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    Default And yes....I hope so...

    Hello Steve.
    A bit early yes....But I fully intend to stay there as long as my fortune allows....London would be great to see as a tourist and I want to be out there long enough to be able to see it as such....Those dudes get all the fun of London without the suffering!!
    So yes....As long as I can possibly be out there..
    Regards.
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  6. #21
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    Hello,

    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I was quite busy last week.

    Hello Mr. Beaubien
    Please call me Ron.

    The points about the schools personalities interested me also...Would you say that it is possible to see or understand the Ryuha's personality by seeing them in action?...Or by training with them for a short time?
    I think that it is probably more likely that one may get a better understanding of what a school's personality might be if they use many different sources of information. Read what has already been written, watch the koryu videos produced by the Nippon Budokan, talk to senior practitioners of the arts, go to a few demonstrations, etc.

    Of course, don't get me wrong, nothing beats first hand experience but training with them for a short time is not really a viable option. A lot of the teaching is labor intensive and most, if not all, koryu teachers don't really make any money off of the arts. Most of them either have full time jobs or have already retired and survive on their pensions. Their limited time is better spent on teaching people who are already committed to the school.

    Moving from one dojo to another also can cause resentment between teachers although they may not state it openly. I also think a lot of teachers would be less likely to take a person seriously if they are hopping from dojo to dojo. The koryu bugei community is quite small actually and word gets around.

    I think one should think deeply about what they are looking for. Some schools have techniques that are dynamic and flashy, others more direct and reserved. Different flavors, but not necessarily better or worse, just different. An unarmed dueling system? A Sengoku period weapons based battlefield school? Edo period unarmed self-defense? Sure everyone wants it all but very few schools have all of that. On the other hand, some schools have so many techniques that one could never master them all in a lifetime while others only have a handful of techniques left.

    There are some schools may only have one teacher per generation and not allow others to teach. Not a problem if one plans to live the rest of his or her life in Japan, but if they move back home later they will have to stop training entirely or else be looked down on as being illegitimate - not a good situation.

    I think most people who are training in more than one school find it easier to train in two schools that are completely different. For example, swordsmanship and swimming or archery and grappling. That way there is almost no crossover in technique to cause confusion or corrupt the technique of the other school.

    There is a lot to think about. I hope that helps you in making your own decisions about possibly doing some koryu training in Japan. We are very lucky to be allowed to train in these older systems and I think most of us that came from the West would like that to continue by giving the teachers a minimum of hassle. Good luck and I'll see you at the Meiji demonstration.

    Regards,

    Ron Beaubien

  7. #22
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    Default A bit of help choosing a koryu

    Hi guys, I'm starting to narrow down certain details of my stay in Japan. Looks like I'll definately be living in the Kyoto area, probably somewhere near the main train station. I'll be seriously ecstatic if I can just train in kyudo and judo, but if I can get into koryu, well lets just say it'd be a dream come true so to speak.
    I've looked around koryu.com and a few other places, and I've found 3 schools that seriously interest me:

    Hontai yoshin ryu jujutsu
    Hozoin ryu sojutsu
    Tendo ryu naginatajutsu

    Here's where it gets tricky. I pretty much have no useful connections whatsoever for getting into a koryu school. The most I could probably get would be an introduction letter from my judo instructor or an acquaintance who is a 2nd dan in Muso Shinden ryu iai.
    Does anyone have any experience in these ryu? Does anyone know the procedures to get into these schools, or how strict/lax they are with prospective students?
    Any help is extremely appreciated.
    Thankyou
    Peter Ross

    Waiter: "Can I tell you about today's specials?"
    Patrick Bateman: "Not if you want to keep your spleen"

  8. #23
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    Default

    This idea of introductions has been blown up a bit out of proportion. I was invited to join one koryu aftger violating any and all of the sanctified procedures: I had no introduction, I spoke almost no Japanese, I was dressed very casually. Above and beyond all of that, one is invited due to a human connection. Many instructors, faced by the conundrum of a foreigner "out of context," will fall back on the only thing left - what their impression is of the man or woman in front of them - in other words, just like people do in any culture.

    That said, an introduction from your judo instructor should be more than enough, particularly if you approach the dojo congruent to the praise that will undoubtedly be in the letter. Remember, in a real sense, the idea of an introduction is that it gives a) a context - where you are "from," b) who to go to if you mess up. In other words, if your instructor (or a citizen from any social group) writes such a letter, they are taking responsibility for you, and further, as a representative of their group, their GROUP is taking responsibility for you.

    Anyway, Yoshin-ryu, in particular, should appreciate the judo intro, because they're a jujutsu school. Tendo-ryu is largely a woman's world, which can be interesting - the social dynamics of conflict within the dojo are quite different.

    Best

  9. #24
    Mekugi Guest

    Default Re: A bit of koryu help

    Takenouchi ryu, the Bitchuden line is down there too. Also, Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho is around in Hyogo.

    Ellis is right. There is too much made out of the introduction thing. Just ask for Kengaku and see where it goes from there! Simple!
    Originally posted by meat
    Hi guys, I'm starting to narrow down certain details of my stay in Japan. Looks like I'll definately be living in the Kyoto area, probably somewhere near the main train station. I'll be seriously ecstatic if I can just train in kyudo and judo, but if I can get into koryu, well lets just say it'd be a dream come true so to speak.
    I've looked around koryu.com and a few other places, and I've found 3 schools that seriously interest me:

    Hontai yoshin ryu jujutsu
    Hozoin ryu sojutsu
    Tendo ryu naginatajutsu

    Here's where it gets tricky. I pretty much have no useful connections whatsoever for getting into a koryu school. The most I could probably get would be an introduction letter from my judo instructor or an acquaintance who is a 2nd dan in Muso Shinden ryu iai.
    Does anyone have any experience in these ryu? Does anyone know the procedures to get into these schools, or how strict/lax they are with prospective students?
    Any help is extremely appreciated.
    Thankyou

  10. #25
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    Default while in Kyoto

    If you are staying in Kyoto, you might think of observing a Takeuchi-ryu session at the Choufukan dojo, in northern Kyoto city, by the Shakkadaniguchi bus stop. I'm not going to vouch for you since I don't know you from Adam, but just drop in and ask to kengaku and take it from there.

    Ono sensei, Kancho, is more than willing to let you watch. If you speak any smattering of Japanese, you will find him, like I have found many koryu teachers, to be quite open and friendly. Eccentric, too. But very friendly. You may also find that the college student deshi will want to practice their English on you.

    Wayne Mruomoto

  11. #26
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    Default PS

    PS,

    A letter of introduction from you Japanese sponsor or employer may be more impressive to Kancho than one from a judo teacher from your own country that he has no connection to.

    Letting a teacher know that you did judo (a bit) will help. But don't brag too much about it. SImple common sense stuff re: human relationships.

    Wayne

  12. #27
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    Sorry, should have read your letter better. Wayne is right. A letter from an American judo teacher (unless Japanese, written in Japanese) will certainly have less weight than your sponsor or employer.

    Best

  13. #28
    Mekugi Guest

    Default Re: PS

    I agree with this 100%. You aren't there to show them what you know, you are there to learn. Matter of fact, they may not care. I wouldn't mention it unless they ask.

    Just remember that you are there for them, they are not there for you. Be on your best behavior, wear nice clothes and remember to groom properly- it may seem stuffy but it can help. You may even have to go and watch a few times before being spoke to about joining, so be patient and do not be discouraged. This is of course, in general and not about any one dojo in particular.

    Originally posted by wmuromoto

    Letting a teacher know that you did judo (a bit) will help. But don't brag too much about it. SImple common sense stuff re: human relationships.

    Wayne

  14. #29
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    It is basic, but have you thought of using those names in search engine to see what others have said about the ryu? Because I have noticed one or two e-budo people, who do not study in Hozoin ryu, who do have contacts. PM them. But I think you will be fine and Kansai needs more good koryu guys to fight back all those Tokyo types, heh.
    J. Nicolaysen
    -------
    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

  15. #30
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    Thanks so much to everyone for the wonderful responses, it is a great help! Things seem much more encouraging now
    Peter Ross

    Waiter: "Can I tell you about today's specials?"
    Patrick Bateman: "Not if you want to keep your spleen"

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