Half for yourself and half for others

[Ade]

Gassho

I read over and over on these pages requests from kenshi to the tune of "I've just moved here, is there any ShorinjiKempo?"

By current standards it requires 240 training sessions spread over a 3-year consistent training period to create a black belt.

In the 12 years that I have been teaching our club has created over 30 of these, they represent a massive investment in time and effort, both by the club, who support these individuals, and the various teachers who answer their questions.

But those who take all this investment and walk away, never repaying the debt they have incurred, consistently amaze me.

Those of you who keep asking, "is there any ShorinjiKempo here?" may wish to consider actually shouldering some of your debt and commit to actually starting your own clubs.

All it takes is a commitment akin to a successful marriage coupled with a genuine interest in helping others to maximise their potential as human beings.

The same commitment that your teachers had and have.

It's a concept called living half for yourself and half for others.

The inverse is constantly asking that somebody put themselves out to spoon-feed you your needs.

Kesshu

Ade

[Pippo_Jedi]

Goodday Ade sensei.

I'm nearly a sho dan, nearly because I leaved SK two months before the sho dan exam. Here in Italy you need a minimum of 4 years to grade to black belt, realistically minimum 5.
I know a lot of people, good people, that needed more, life is simple more than Sk training for most people.
That said it's not simple to start anew a sk class, or to continue a old one.
-no revenue: let's face it, it is a very strong point and it is a good one, but one has to have a job that pays and then time and energy to devote to teaching, not everybody has the two...
-building a SK class is a long term goal, you have to be good at teaching, good at organizing people and money around, and you have to be patient too, it could take some years before people start showing up in numbers
-wsko, federations and "old senseis": while they are a wonderfull structure, the wsko, the various federations and 'old sensei' are not a perfectly olied machine that runs smoothly. I can imagine all the problems of the world arising from the intaraction of wsko and federations, fed and fed, federation and branch masters. while we all dream of a better world through sk principles and practice we all know that nothing is perfect and so are those structures. I can imagine a lot of people throwing up the hands and simply starting "shourinji kempo seido ryogan whatever" bacause thay want a less overbearing establishment...

my first three ideas
again goodday

[satsukikorin]

Reading Ade's post, I found myself having two apparently contradictory reactions (isn't that, like, very Zen or Japanese or something?): 1) "yes, exactly, right on?\c'mon, people, how about taking some personal responsibility?"; 2) "now hang on, that's not really fair...".

After a bit of reflection I'm leaning toward reaction #2, but I still think reaction #1 has something to it?\Ade-sensei's comments are at least a good spur.

Why reaction #2? Because to be fair, I think that even for people with the drive to get Shorinji Kempo established by hook or by crook in some location where it currently ain't, the first step is to shout loudly, "Hey, any other kenshi hanging about?!" If so, great; if not, well, soldier on.

Side questions: Ade, in your estimation, what level of experience would a kenshi need to get a new club started? And does the new location's distance from the nearest proper sensei have any bearing on the issue?

[Ade]

Guys

Gassho

I'm just leaving for work in a bit of a hurry and I desperately wnt to answer this properly which I intend to later on.

But very quickly.

Firstly ask to see what help's available locally.

Then find suitable venue and establish branch.

The teaching skills and style will develop with practice.

Ade

PS I was brand new sho-dan of 2 months experience when I took over Southampton University.

[Ian Sparrow]

Gassho

I'd like to throw in a counter question...
Does a kenshi have to start up a new club in order to "repay the debt they have incurred"?

I would answer 'no'. In the same way that not all Christians feel the urge to become priests, or company employees to become managing directors, not all kenshi can or should commit to branch mastership.
It is possible to live half for yourself and half for others without being a branch master.

At the risk of being a heretic, I would also say it is possible to live half for yourself and half for others without being a kenshi.

Kesshu,
Ian

[Ero Sennin]

I thought to become a branch master it was necessary to be a 3rd Dan? I was going to post more but I realise that this may be wrong.

[Ade]

Originally posted by Ian Sparrow
Gassho

I'd like to throw in a counter question...
Does a kenshi have to start up a new club in order to "repay the debt they have incurred"?

I would answer 'no'. In the same way that not all Christians feel the urge to become priests, or company employees to become managing directors, not all kenshi can or should commit to branch mastership.
It is possible to live half for yourself and half for others without being a branch master.

At the risk of being a heretic, I would also say it is possible to live half for yourself and half for others without being a kenshi.

Kesshu,
Ian

Ian

This is ShorinjiKempo, don't liken us to Christianity, religion has started more wars than any other subject.

In your case it was quite clearly stated that there was an expectation that as a senior you would pay back the club by assisting in subsequent juniors instruction.

It is possible to live half for yourself and half for others without being a kenshi.

It's also possible to fail to discharge a debt of honour.

This thread is about people who constantly ask for help without any thought to ever giving anything back.

It's meant to be a reminder, in your case I feel it may be something that you'd rather not be reminded of.

Kesshu

Ade

[David Dunn]

I posted a reply earlier. Seems to have not appeared. I'll try again.

It is correct that you need to be chukenshi to be a wsko branchmaster. However, in the uk at least, a junkenshi or shokenshi can start the process of establishing a new branch, so long as it is under the careful guidance of someone who is chukenshi or greater.

So, if you're shodan and you move to a new area, why not start a new branch? Well, first, you need to get the sanction of your branchmaster, who may not think that you're up to the job. Second, you have to commit to being in your class every single lesson without fail, no matter what your work or home life throws up. Third, you have to redouble your efforts at your own training, and make sure you get to your branchmasters dojo and seminars on a regular basis. Fourth, you have to resolve to find out the solution to any question or technical problem that arises, without resorting to making it up yourself (to save face for example). There are probably fifth, sixth et seq as well. These days 'commitment' is a dirty word.

[Ian Sparrow]

Gassho
Sensei Ade,
My comments were not based upon my personal choice to stop training, a topic that I will choose not to discuss in this forum.

I agree with you entirely that it is often the case that people take out more from Shorinji Kempo than they put back into it.

My point is that just because a kenshi may find themselves in a far flung corner of the world where there may not be a dojo, they need not start their own in order to repay a debt to the system.
There are many ways to put value back into an organisation such as Shorinji Kempo - running a dojo is just one of these (albeit one that requires a lot of personal commitment).

Certainly it is worth encouraging the development of new clubs around the globe, but there are many reasons why individuals may choose or be unable to take such a route as David D notes above.

Kesshu,
Ian

[luar]

So in other words what Ade is saying is that if you really want it, then go do it.

I have to say this thread has been stuck in my mind lately because I am thinking about leaving New York within the next 2 years and wonderng about how I will continue to practice.

[David Dunn]

Raul,
I had that dilemma when I wanted to leave Southampton. I could've gone to Warwick, Bath, anywhere really. I made sure I went somewhere there was a dojo. Into the bargain I realised that all these London/bigcity-phobes are wrong. Over to Mr Strummer.

London calling, yes, I was there, too
An' you know what they said? Well, some of it was true!
London calling at the top of the dial
And after all this, won't you give me a smile?
London Calling

I never felt so much ALIVE ALIVE ALIVE

[luar]

Yeah its interesting how in looking at what my future plans are going to be, Kempo keeps working its way in there as a consideration.

Of course if things work out for me here and I continue to get my shodan grading, it might be feasible to consider Da Brooklyn Branch... You know that has a really nice sound to it. Very distinctivly Nu Yawkish. Who would want to do embu with da kenshi from Brooklyn?

As a side note and tribute to Ohashi Sensei, he lives in a highly inconvenient section of Brooklyn where his commute to the dojo is considerably difficult. As a contrast, my commute is incredibly easy. Even when he is sick, he still makes it in and gives so much of himself. I know he talks about opening a Brooklyn Branch but he is well aware that our current location in Manhattan is prime.

[Ade]

To those of you justifying why you're not paying back.

There's lots of excuses that people use to avoid responsibilty.

"I'm too busy right now" doesn't cut any ice with me, my wife and 3 daughters, my job, my other interests or my social life.

I didn't make that excuse to those who came wanting, I don't expect anyone to make it to me.

Likewise "it doesn't suit me to give back right now" rings hollow in comparison when compared with "but it suited you to take back then."

Get on with it, stop making excuses, and if you've already decided to welch on this debt then don't attempt to justify it through excuses.

I hear enough lies at work to recognise a stinker when it's muttered as an excuse.

To those of you willing to give it a go, you have my full support, if necessary this will entail my travelling to you and helping out, in my time off work and away from my family.

Don't be scared, shoot for the moon, the worst you can do is fail, but at least you'll have tried.

Ade

[Gary Dolce]

Gassho,

Not everyone can (or should) open their own Branch.

Encourage and provide support for those who can.

Don't berate those who can't. They need to make the commitment on their own, not because someone told them to.

Living half for yourself and half for others doesn't mean expecting others to pay back.

Provide a good example, and those who can see it will follow it.

[colin linz]

I would like to add a couple of points. Some people that seek a local branch are not necessarily in a position to start a branch. When I started training in 1988 I was in the Defence Force. This meant I could not start a branch because of my service commitments. I could be deployed at short notice for extended periods, and could be posted to new locations every 2 or 3 years. To start a branch under these circumstances would be irresponsible.

I think my friend Phongs post may have instigated this thread. He is in a similar position now as I was, and is not in a position to start a branch even if that is what he wanted to do. I don’t think anyone should be pushed into starting a branch; they need to have a genuine desire to do so. In Australia it has not always been easy to start new branches, permission to do so was very difficult to obtain, this has only recently eased. It is one of the reasons why we have so few branches after so many years of operation in Australia.