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Thread: Kukishin-ryu bujutsu / Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho

  1. #16
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    Originally posted by poryu
    Hi Achim
    Yesit is in History and traditions but where doeit say it is from Kukishinden Ryu.
    You obviously had me confused with Achim Steigert, the thread starter, from Belgium there. :-)
    I just pointed out that the weapon is in one of Hatsumis books and that he calls it an "oh-gama".

    I will be in Duisburg teaching at the Bujinkan Dojo there in march maybe we could meet up
    Oh. Is there an official Bujinkan dojo in duisburg now? Who's the shidoshi? Hopefully it's not the ...ehm... rather large guy with the Tae Kwon Do black belt from the World Wushu Federation :-) , who got his black belt in the Bujinkan (from my former shidoshi) because he had his own dojo?
    Joachim Hoss
    Cologne, Germany

    Occam's Razor - A weapon for true martial artists.

  2. #17
    Okashira Guest

    Post Kukishin-ryu bujutsu

    Hello everybody,
    There are 2 books on buyubooks,
    One is called Kukishin Ryu Bujutsu: Bojutsu, Hanbojutsu, Tachiai by Kiba Koshiro
    The other is Kukishinden Zensho (1983).

    Are these book related to Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho?

    Thanks!

  3. #18
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    Yes, and also others.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  4. #19
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    Default Kukishin-ryu bujutsu

    Just wanted to get some opinions of a book by Georg Stiebler on Kukishin ryu. I have seen the book listed and wondered if it would be worth the purchase. It is in German.
    Any opinions are appreciated.
    thanks
    Jeff Brown

  5. #20
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    Hi,
    where exactly did you see it listed ? I have never heard of the book...

    Thanks,
    Karsten

    [Edit: I found the book, it has been out of print but it is identical to this one "BO - Karate. HANBO- JITSU - die Techniken des Stockkampfes". I do not know the books, sorry.]
    Last edited by kabutoki; 3rd January 2005 at 22:13.
    _______________________
    karsten helmholz
    bujinkan shinden dojo buchholz/hamburg

  6. #21
    Mekugi Guest

    Default Kukishin-ryu bujutsu

    Last weekend I attended the Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho Denshukai in Toba, Japan. Aside from excellent training and study-review, we also visited some of the sites extremely important to the history of the Kuki family. I took a few pictures while visiting these sites, which I have uploaded them to image station. If you would like to see them, please click here:
    Kukishin Album from Toba

    Unfortunately, you need to create a free account there to view the pictures.

    Thanks!

    -Russ

  7. #22
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    Russ,
    Great pics. I have begun some of the Kukishin ryu hanbo training as it relates to Hontai Yoshin ryu this week.
    I hope all is well.
    Jeff
    Jeff Brown

  8. #23
    Mekugi Guest

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    I am glad you liked them!
    You should have a great time with the hanbo. Fun stuff! I'm doing great, moving this month closer to Nagoya. Things on your end I trust are good!?

    -Russ
    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus
    Russ,
    Great pics. I have begun some of the Kukishin ryu hanbo training as it relates to Hontai Yoshin ryu this week.
    I hope all is well.
    Jeff

  9. #24
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    Things are going well. Continuing to train with Barnes Sensei in Louisville, as often as possible. Slowly working my way through kata, and enjoying myself immensely as I do.
    Good luck with the move. Definitely one thing I do not enjoy!
    Jeff
    Jeff Brown

  10. #25
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    Default Kukishin koryu and Takamatsu?

    I'm making this inquiry based off remarks from another forum
    I brought the subject here to learn more about it.

    I am making this inquiry with quite a bit of respect
    only trying learn more about it whether it is accurate or not?

    It was said that the Koryu Budo of the Kuki family such as Kukishinden tenshin hyoho
    were revived schools and that Takamatsu Toshitsugu, teacher of the X-kan headmaster
    Maasaki Hatsumi, was the one who helped revive them -- from the kuki based budo that he held and which became the kukishinden ryu that Hatsumi and the rest of the X-kan teaches.

    The link to that conversation.

    I hope this inquiry won't make anyone angry?

    But is this true?

    And if this is true then what does this make the Kukishinden ryu
    taught in the X-kans?

    Would someone please explain all of this to me?

    I am very curious and don't know the facts or circumstances.

    TYVM in advance for any replies.

  11. #26
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    Based on what I read, Takamatsu had copies of Kuki scrolls. The kuki family lost the scrolls in air raid and Takamatsu restored those from his copy.

    http://www.genbukan.org/cgi-bin/site...tsu_Toshitsugu
    Prasanna Bahukudumbi

  12. #27
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    pbpv said: Based on what I read, Takamatsu had copies of Kuki scrolls. The kuki family lost the scrolls in air raid and Takamatsu restored those from his copy.

    http://www.genbukan.org/cgi-bin/site...tsu_Toshitsugu

    Ok, I read that page up.

    Also, from what Mekugi (Russ Ebert) said over on Budoseek:

    Takamatsu did not revive any of these ryuha.

    Takamatsu did not re-teach anything to the kuki family.

    None of these koryu kuki schools were revived.

    Takamatsu was only a researcher of the kuki archives.


    Now you've added to these listed facts that
    Takamatsu helped the kuki by restoring lost documents
    to the kuki archive that were destroyed during WWII.


    Although it's the exact opposite of what's been getting said
    around the internet, these positions seem to be more reasonable.
    But it is the exact opposite of what's been getting said.

    They were saying that Takamatsu revived the kukishin schools,
    retaught the kuki family their own art and that these revived schools became koryu only as of the early 20th century (circa the 1930's-1940's ??)



    .

  13. #28
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    Hello,

    you may like to check out the surprisingly comprehensive information at the Kukishin homepage, which has an English section as well:

    www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/index_e.html

    There you can find some points regarding Takamatsu, too.

    Regards,

    Henning Wittwer

  14. #29
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    Thanx to everyone

    here at at Budoseek

    I have had all my questions answered
    and have learned alot.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lbkickn View Post
    Takamatsu was only a researcher of the kuki archives.
    (taken from http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/index_e.html)
    Q: On the Lineage of Tenshinhyoho

    A: A historical document says that Shirai Toru taught Tenshin Itto Ryu, which he learned from his teacher Terada, to Tsuda Meikei. He also taught Tenshin Shirai Ryu consisting of Sword techniques and Shuriken techniques, the school of martial arts that was his own creation, to Yoshida Okunojo; following which Toru focused on Tenshin Hyoho till he died. As we have pointed out on our website, Tenshin Hyoho was supposedly passed onto Kuki Takahiro, the head of the Kuki family, from Shirai Toru himself at the end of the Tokugawa period. It was, however, just Tenshin Hyoho, the secret Toru devised till the latest years, that was integrated into the system of Kukishinden. Other 7 fields of martial arts including Bojutsu techniques and Shinto secrets have been passed onto us in their original form to this day. The Kukishin Ryu that integrated Tenshin Hyoho into its system of martial arts is handed down exclusively in the Soke Kuki's family, whereas in other lineage, such as Kukishin Ryu Bar techniques in Takagi Ryu---Okuni den--- and Bessho den, the school that branched out from Kukishin Ryu when Kukishin Ryu was founded, Tenshin Hyoho is not integrated into the system. Apart from the Kukishin Ryu handed down in the Soke Kuki's family, Tenshin Hyoho is handed down in the school of Kukishin Ryu Takamatsu Chosui taught. In their school of Kukishin Ryu, Tenshin Hyoho is taught as part of Gokui Hiden, whose school name begins with "Tenshin Hyoho."

    so it would seem that he's more than just a researcher.

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