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Thread: Wapons in karate

  1. #31
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    Refresh my memory, is a chintei the weapon where one has sticks attached to their forearms?

    If so, I don't think one would be able to quickly grab some bits of wood and tie them to their forearms, but you never know. Also I don't know what tool or implement they would be disguised as-maybe as splints on broken arms. Ha.

    Here's the thing with them tho: they're not weapons, they're armour. Was a weapons ban on armour? If not one could walk around with chintei openly and not be breaking the weapons ban.

    Is that what a chintei is or am I wrong?
    Liam Cognet

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liam Cognet
    Refresh my memory, is a chintei the weapon where one has sticks attached to their forearms?

    If so, I don't think one would be able to quickly grab some bits of wood and tie them to their forearms, but you never know. Also I don't know what tool or implement they would be disguised as-maybe as splints on broken arms. Ha.

    Here's the thing with them tho: they're not weapons, they're armour. Was a weapons ban on armour? If not one could walk around with chintei openly and not be breaking the weapons ban.

    Is that what a chintei is or am I wrong?
    Sticks of bamboo, bias-cut so they're sharp, attached to the INNER forearms. Not armor, a weapon. Easily hidden in long baggy sleeves.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  3. #33
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    Default The Way of Old War Arts

    I was taught that initially on Okinawa the term "kobujutsu" meant "old war art" and it was a complete MA, one which used weaponry and non-weapon fighting. Makes sense: Ko=Old Bu=War Jutsu=Art. I've seen official records from Hohan Soken that detail this fact. Did any of you Okinawan/Japanese stylists also learn this relatively unknown aspect of karate history?

    You can do karate with no weapons or with them IMO. I'm pretty sure that originally most tode included some weapons play, even if it was just bo training.

  4. #34
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    One of the things this thread seems to have missed is that karate and Kobudo developed seperatly. Kobudo is in fact an older art. Karate's focus is empty hand.

    For those that have trained over 20 years you will remember that there was very little focus in the dojo's of the 60's and 70's on weapons. It is in the last 20 to 30 years that North America and the rest of the western world has come to study kobudo. Of course that is also relavant to the organization of the kobudo styles only happening in the last 50 years.

    With the advent of sport karate in the western world it took a few years for promoters to realize that if we studied kobudo we had more events and a wider range of kata to draw from. Therefore more competition and a bit more money in the hands of the promoters. (Not a criticisim, simply a fact that aided the development of the art in the western world)

    It is a natural transition from studying the empty hand arts and to at some point in your training include weapons. We must remember though that the two are seperate and it is only recently that they were taught in the same dojo.

    Years ago karate dojo that had weapons kata were mostly using bo and the common kata was shushi no kun. If you have met many okinawan kobudo people shushi is a common first kata and it is not hard to get somone to show it to you or teach it. This was the beginning of the melding.

    I think we can all agree that kobudo training is good for the karate practioner. Sometimes it can clarify some body mechanics that are used in karate, it is good to learn about a weapon for the purpose of defending against it, and it can also assist with a dozen other aspects of the arts.

    As to the roots of karate and kobudo and why they were developed, well as we all know there are hundreds of theories and ideas on this. Because it was not written down until this century we will never be sure. Taira Shinken developed many of the kata simply by stringing together basic techniques, Funakoshi is "one" of a few sources credited with changing the kangi.... consider this....

    Was Funakoshi the only Okinawan to go to Japan? Or was he the one that was most notarized? We know that the Chinese influence came from many sources in China. Each of the masters that trained in China seem to have trained with many different people. We who are "traditional " Okinawan practioners and who have sensei or influence from Okinawa all have different connections there, why would it be any different for the Okinawans years ago in China?

    Did the origination of weapons come from farm impliments? Again there are theories, but we will never know for sure. What is important is that we understand the history of the development of kobudo in relation to the fighting arts of Okinawa. If the weapons of Okinawa are drawn from other styles of Chinese and Japanes influence, Why are there formal styles lacking in many of the weapons? Why is there questions about the origin of the sai? A big question that has always puzzled me is if it was the farmers and peasants that karate and kobudo was developed for...... when did the starving and oppressed people of Okinawa have time to train? If your starving and a government is oppressing you is training in the arts a big priority for you?

    I have studied Kobudo with Taira Shinken lineage people, from Matayoshi lineage people, and my assessment was this. They have different histories, they have common histories. Many of the current masters in Okinawa have very small dojo in their homes. Many of them know each other and are friends and acquaintences. They respect each other for the most part and realize that all of the martial arts are part of their culture. Sometimes differences in style are based on Opposing points of view as to what is effective, which can often be linked to differences in body mechanics and body style.

    I have sat in a room with two different styles of kobudo and listened to them talk and dicuss differences. They are all aware of each other and respect each others techniques and opinions. They all agree that karate and kobudo are seperate, but also agree that a dojo is a dojo and you can practice both in the same space. They also agree that practicing both is complimentary and beneficial to the student. They often agree also that the martial arts is a life long study that should be able to be studied until the day you die.

    Nagamine Sensei did a kata at one of the world tournaments the year before he died. He was old, he was frail, but still did his kata. It was something that you would not have noticed and perhaps the North American student would have simply passed by as an old man doing kata. But it held a message.

    The root of the systems may have come from a war torn culture and developed over time into a sport... ther may be much speculation about technique and who is the best, but in the heart of the matter training for life, learning to get along with people , and maintaining your health is the long term effects.

    Mike O'Leary
    Old Dragon

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