Ki/Chi/Prana & Meditation

[Richard Tolson]

This thread is still going off course. Please start another thread if you want to debate what chi is or the reality of chi. Though there seem to be enough threads dealing with that already.

So, again I will try to bring the thread back to my original topic:

I was wondering how many martial artists here practice meditation exercises to enhance internal energy (ki/chi/prana, etc.)? This was something strongly emphasized in martial arts training thirty plus years ago. It seems to have been abandoned by most of the martial arts schools that I see today. So, I was wondering, how many people here still practice these various exercises? How many instructors here teach these techniques?

Peter and Daniel,
Thanks for your response on the subject matter! How long have you been practicing internal energy exercises and how do you think they have benefited you?

[Cufaol]

I've been practising Prana techniques (yoga) for about 5 years now.
And I'm familiar with Western meditative practises.
my tai-jutsu/ninpo sensei often stresses the importance of kime/kiai and fighting from your hara.

Regards, c.

[Exorcist_Fist]

Silent Dan, when I said the reports of the chi masters were accurate, I meant the translations of the stories were accurate, as you seem to be of the opinion that the sources I cited were innacurate. The details given in the various Taoist, Buddhist etc etc works reflect the traditional beliefs about the way the masters of ch'i are supposed to be able to manipulate this energy.

Then I misunderstood you, and you missed my point. The point is that the specific mistranslation is indicative of how the stories get out of hand. The other examples of the dog and the swordsman were not translational issues. The accuracy of an account is not solely a function of the accuracy of the translation. Furthermore, regardless of how widely held a 'traditional' view is, this is not necessarily indicative of it being correct. People once believed the earth was flat, and it didn't manage to make the earth flat.

Richard, this is all I have to say on the matter, please PM me for more data.

[Trevor Johnson]

Trevor, mind if I ask about this:



What in your mind is the end of meditation?

Stilling your mind, freeing it of worries and fears so you can function effectively. That is how the samurai used it.

[Harry Cook]

The analogy of the flat earth is a nice example of people believing something which seems to fit their subjective experience but which lacks any objective proof. Ch'i is like this.
The question as to whether these things are still taught as much - probably not. Instructors are hopefully better informed and less gullible.
Harry Cook

[Richard Tolson]

Back in the eighties I remember reading that Bujinkan members were expected to be able to move away from a sword strike delivered to them from behind as a part of one of their dan (godan?) tests. Was this considered a demonstration of chi ability? Is it still practiced today? Comments from past or present Bujinkan members only would be appreciated.

[Toreba]

Back in the eighties I remember reading that Bujinkan members were expected to be able to move away from a sword strike delivered to them from behind as a part of one of their dan (godan?) tests. Was this considered a demonstration of chi ability? Is it still practiced today? Comments from past or present Bujinkan members only would be appreciated.

I am not Bujinkan, but in the Genbukan we have the same test. It does involve ki, and being able to sense the intent of the attacker. So far as I know, it is still practiced.


In regards to the original question, ki training is used in my dojo. I havent practiced it often, so i havent seen any results thus far. Definately because i didnt have an open mind when i was practicing. Im still working on eliminating my own bias before i can start training in earnest.

[Trevor Johnson]

Back in the eighties I remember reading that Bujinkan members were expected to be able to move away from a sword strike delivered to them from behind as a part of one of their dan (godan?) tests. Was this considered a demonstration of chi ability? Is it still practiced today? Comments from past or present Bujinkan members only would be appreciated.

2 things. Chi, or sensitivity to your surroundings? Or are they the same thing?

And trying to limit the people who are allowed to respond to a question often doesn't fly here. As you may have noticed.

[Richard Tolson]

And trying to limit the people who are allowed to respond to a question often doesn't fly here. As you may have noticed.

I realized it would only work with polite people. They would simply start their own thread and leave us at peace to have an intelligent discussion without butting in or trying to highjack the thread.

Brian,
Thanks for your input! I didn't know the Genbukan practiced it as well. Is there much emphasis on chi training?

[Toreba]

Brian,
Thanks for your input! I didn't know the Genbukan practiced it as well. Is there much emphasis on chi training?

Not at my level. At the higher levels, they work on ki with evasion and stealth techniques. There are probably other things as well, but those are the only ones i have seen.

[Trevor Johnson]

I realized it would only work with polite people. They would simply start their own thread and leave us at peace to have an intelligent discussion without butting in or trying to highjack the thread.

Academic rigor, learn it, live it, love it! It's what makes e-budo great!

Seriously, though, is chi magic, religion, or science? Only one of the above is undebatable. The other two could win you $1 million, which even in these days of weak US currency is a lot!

[Harry Cook]

If any of the advanced internal energy practitioners would like to make an easy $1,000,000 see http://skepdic.com/randi.html.
I am sure mr. Randi could come up with a couple of valid tests; if not I could.
Harry Cook

[UshiDeshi]

Peter and Daniel,
Thanks for your response on the subject matter! How long have you been practicing internal energy exercises and how do you think they have benefited you?

I have only been practicing for about a year now and feel so much better than I did prior to my studies. I have not been sick since, my acupuncturist/sensei tells me my body is in better balance. I have more energy during the day, no longer needing naps or coffee or feeling that afternoon grogginess. I also have better mental clarity as well as improved memory. These are just some of the gross benefits I can feel and see.

As far as utilizing it in my martial arts.......each time you punch you are letting chi flow through you arms, hands/fists into your attackers body. Depending on where you hit this could case serious disruptions in the flow of the meridians, hitting certain points in succession can cause a knockout.

People can argue this until the end of time. But the fact remains, Chi exists and it is/was studied by most Traditional martial arts. 3000 years of successes could be wrong, but I have my doubts.

[Harry Cook]

3,000 years? Would you like to identify the texts that record ch'i training 3,000 years ago?
Harry Cook

[Richard Tolson]

Dr. David Frawley, O.M.D., a Vedic scholar, states that Yoga, which deals with pranayama (the original basis of qigong exercises) can be traced back to the Rig Veda, the oldest Hindu text (ca. 2000-1500 BCE). Which could possibly make that 3500 to 4000 years ago.