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Thread: Pressure points for those of us with poor aim.

  1. #16
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    I'm sorry. I've taken it into account. I was talking about the following: What if pressure points would indeed have the possible effect of shutting down important body functions (kidneys etc.)? I suppose it would affect a lot of styles and also the way people fight.

    Again, I apologize for my prior unspecific post yesterday mr. Johnson. Greetz, c.


    Regards,
    Christophe van Eysendyck.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cufaol
    I'm sorry. I've taken it into account. I was talking about the following: What if pressure points would indeed have the possible effect of shutting down important body functions (kidneys etc.)? I suppose it would affect a lot of styles and also the way people fight.

    Again, I apologize for my prior unspecific post yesterday mr. Johnson. Greetz, c.
    How would that affect a lot of styles?
    Rogier van der Peijl

    REAL SCOTSMEN WEAR KILTS because sheep can hear a zipper at 500 yards!

    Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
    Ah, what a cutie, Rogier. I'll bet a lot of ladies in Netherlands are mourning because you are out of circulation now!

  3. #18
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    Depends. Ever tried to type when you're freaking out? Tunnel vision and loss of fine motor skills make it really difficult, no? Righto. If you have to hit 3-5 specific points in order to use the pressure point skills, then I doubt that you can, under stress, actually use those skills. So whether or not they work is moot. The fact is, you could probably shut down things like the kidneys and the liver, since they have a surprising amount of nervous control. The problem is, it would require direct targeting of the spinal cord, and surgery. If you're going for the spinal cord, break the thing, already!
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  4. #19
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    yes, well ofcourse it's probably impossible, unless, you could train until the techniques become reflexes (unconscious level).All of this is ofcourse completely hypothetical.
    c.


    Regards,
    Christophe van Eysendyck.

  5. #20
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    I don't think that even a highly trained fighter could do it, given the complete chaos that they'd be dealing with and the physiological responses going on within their own bodies.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  6. #21
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    correct, mr.Johnson. However, certain special forces (seals if I'm right) have a cqc-system, based on attacks and counterattacks according to the reactions of the adversary's body when they are hit. The 'students' study the nervous system and it's reactions on certain techniques (punch/kick/throw...). I don't know wether they still use it, but it's the closest thing I know to pressure points.

    regards, c.


    Regards,
    Christophe van Eysendyck.

  7. #22
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    We do that too, it's not too hard. You find movements designed to take advantage of that in various kata.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  8. #23
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    so, when you expand that, you could use some pressure points. Or at least I do when I can't get someone's arm bent for a certain technique, I tend to hit the nerves with my knuckles. It numbs the arm for about a second, and that's all I need. Which doesn't mean that all pressure points/techniques are usefull ofcourse. And I have to say that my little theory wasn't testd in a real life situation.(luckily perhaps.)

    c.


    Regards,
    Christophe van Eysendyck.

  9. #24
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    Oh, and one thing about the seals. Military training is not the same as karate training. It's much simpler and much more direct. We learn stuff with more nuance that the average seal simply doesn't have TIME to learn.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  10. #25
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    ofcourse. I'm aware of that. Sometimes I wonder...is it safe to teach people only the practical stuff, and leave out the history, the culture and the traditions?

    c.


    Regards,
    Christophe van Eysendyck.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cufaol
    ofcourse. I'm aware of that. Sometimes I wonder...is it safe to teach people only the practical stuff, and leave out the history, the culture and the traditions?

    c.
    I would prefer not to, since that leaves out the ethical matrix in which I would prefer that this stuff be embedded. The army provides one for seals: e.g. only when we tell you it's ok, but civvies have to provide their own. The law is a good start, though.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cufaol
    correct, mr.Johnson. However, certain special forces (seals if I'm right) have a cqc-system, based on attacks and counterattacks according to the reactions of the adversary's body when they are hit. The 'students' study the nervous system and it's reactions on certain techniques (punch/kick/throw...). I don't know wether they still use it, but it's the closest thing I know to pressure points.

    regards, c.
    You know that military units don't emphasize unarmed hand to hand combat that much, right? The kind of training that special forces personnel get in that area will even vary quite a lot, and there are many who feel that their hand to hand training was silly.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cufaol
    ofcourse. I'm aware of that. Sometimes I wonder...is it safe to teach people only the practical stuff, and leave out the history, the culture and the traditions?

    c.
    It's unarmed hand to hand combat. It's the last line of defense. Although you can theoretically kill someone with unarmed hand to hand combat, or break his limbs, or knock him out, it's a lot harder to do so unarmed than if you even had a rock in your hand.

    It's not even like giving someone a knife and telling him that the pointy end goes in the other person. It's far less instantly destructive.

    Since we're already scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of destructiveness, the last thing that you need from a self defense perspective is to then water down the training futher with historically unsubstantiated stories about history and traditions which are essentially superfluous. The more superfluous static you add to unarmed training the more you're just hurting the student who will go around with a completely inflated idea of how destructive he is unarmed compared to a couple of average guys with knives. I think that your concern is totally pointed in the wrong direction.

  14. #29
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    Personally, I think that the history and the culture stuff is great, for civilians. The military provides its own methods of mediating violence, but we need the matrix to help us learn the ethics of using violence. Soldiers have that matrix provided for them, courtesy of military culture, law, and custom.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  15. #30
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    Still don't see how or why this would affect a lot of styles.

    Just about every system / style does something with pressure points, it may be in completely different forms. As for using pressure points in real life situations; I've seen the Dillman stuff and it all looks nice, but it does not seem to be that useful in a stressful situation.

    If you get into a grappling situation you might be able to use some of the very basic pressure points just to cause some pain and get into a certain position.

    I think that Trevor's description of tunnel vision is quite accurate and applies to most situations.
    Rogier van der Peijl

    REAL SCOTSMEN WEAR KILTS because sheep can hear a zipper at 500 yards!

    Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
    Ah, what a cutie, Rogier. I'll bet a lot of ladies in Netherlands are mourning because you are out of circulation now!

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