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Thread: Minoru Mochizuki, an interview

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    Default Minoru Mochizuki, an interview

    Aikido Journal has an interesting article about this judo man. He seems to be well known as an aikidoka, but like many of his peers from that era, was a judo man first, and a good one at that...
    Nullius in verba

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    Default Yoseikan Budo

    I was fortunate enough to train under Mochizuki Minoru for a few short months at the Yoseikan dojo in Shizuoka. The connections that he made between aikido and judo as well as the sutemi waza were really, extremely interesting.

    He trained under Kano Jigaro and then was a live-in student of Mifune Kyuzo. But he was also awarded a tenth dan in Aikido, trained in Katori Shinto ryu and was a student of Gichin Funokoshi. His final grade in judo was I believe 8th dan.

    While I was there, there were always high ranking budoka visiting from around the world, as well as politicians from France (!) where he introduced budo in major way and his son continues with his own system. Probably the student who best represents his particular approach outside of Japan would be Patrick Auge who now lives in California. His son emphasizes karate aspects more greatly than judo aspects in his own system from what I understand
    Matthew Rogers
    Scarborough Martial Arts Training Group
    http://www.spiritforging.com

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    MarkF Guest

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    I do not know Mr. Moshizuki nor have I ever "felt" his technique but he is a very well respected judoka amongst other judoka.

    Probably the only reason he did not grade higher than 8-dan is because he pretty much left the Kodokan, but he never stopped teaching judo. He really was that good. One person who comes close to him is John Cornish, a former British and world Kodokan Kata champion who also is graded in aikido and karate (third dan in karate, I believe). Cornish's main art today is aikido, but right there, the differences end.

    I do not mean that they are equals but Moshizuki did what few could accomplish within a single art. I wish I were that good, or at least so that I could move up to other things, and not leave my judo behind. Few of us will, that is for sure. I have watched some who trained in the Yoseikan Budo (it was referred to as aikido then, but it surely kept much of the judo in front) and it was

    I believe it easy for the son to place karate and aikido in front of judo as he may have thought that as both were taijutsu-style budo, he kept what was available and easy to work in. He may be the founder's son but he is not Minoru himself. I do not feel he is doing anything wrong in that but I have not seen his technique except for a clip here and there.


    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo
    Probably the student who best represents his particular approach outside of Japan would be Patrick Auge who now lives in California. His son emphasizes karate aspects more greatly than judo aspects in his own system from what I understand
    While Auge Sensei is a TOP NOTCH teacher and has great technique I believe it is a bit of a stretch to say he best represents Master Mochizuki's approach outside of Japan. One of the things Master Mochizuki did with Yoseikan was to constantly evolve. Auge Sensei is a great teacher from what he learned while training at the hombu and for several years after that, but, did not evolve with Yoseikan as Minoru wanted Yoseikan to evolve.

    While it's true that Hiroo is not the Judo man his father was (Hiroo only reached 3rd dan in Judo) there is a lot of Judo techniques in Yoseikan Budo. There is a big karate type influence in what is now Yoseikan Budo, but, there has always remained the judo, aikido, and ju-jitsu elements of the art in there. He has been instructing his teachers to go back and teach more earlier (many were waiting until students reached high ranking before teaching them the throws). I have seen first-hand where Minoru's grandson, Mitchi Mochizuki (Hiroo's oldest son), has done judo with a much taller and bigger (nice way to say girth) judoka and was able to move and throw this mountain of a man without problems (it really surprised the man because that was the first time somebody was able to move and throw him so easily).

    Thank all of you for the kind words about Master Minoru Mochizuki!
    Robert Cheshire
    Yoseikan Teacher
    www.yoseikanbudo.us
    www.fagri-igraf.org/

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    Default Patrick Auge and Minoru Mochizuki

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cheshire
    While Auge Sensei is a TOP NOTCH teacher and has great technique I believe it is a bit of a stretch to say he best represents Master Mochizuki's approach outside of Japan.
    Who represents Minoru Mochizuki more correctly? Auge has menkyo-kaiden from Mochizuki Minoru. He was the only foreigner among the 20 people who were awarded the certificate.

    The thing is, there are/were really two "yoseikan budo" arts.

    Mochizuki Hiroo is the actual inventor of the name yoseikan budo. He took all the arts he had learned from Minoru sensei and others, including Ohtsuka in Wado Ryu and Ueshiba Morihei, himself, in aikido and blended them together and called it yoseikan budo.

    At that time, Minoru sensei was still teaching Yoseikan Aikido, Yoseikan Judo, Yoseikan Karate, etc., as separate classes. But he only began speaking of the arts as a unified melange after his son, Hiroo, coined the term yoseikan budo as a unified art.

    The thing is, Hiroo sensei had already begun to formulate his yoseikan budo around aikido, judo and karate, with the heaviest emphasis on his long experience in Wado Ryu karate. Also, living in France for many decades, he was thinking in a more international way than even Minoru sensei. His art developed into a unique system that he teaches now internationally.

    Minoru sensei's yoseikan budo was formulated on very traditional and even classical Japanese thinking, beginning in the late 1960s or early 70s, around his aikido, judo and gyokushin ryu jujutsu, which is the source of his sutemi waza. He trained directly with Gichin Funakoshi in karate but only considered the most fundamental karate techniques to be useful and realistic. His yoseikan budo incorporates the basics of karate.

    Now when you say that Patrick Auge does not "best represent" Minoru Sensei's yoseikan budo because he somehow "failed to evolve" with yoseikan, you should realize that Mochizuki Minoru sensei used Patrick Auge in transitioning from the days of separate aikido, judo, karate, sword and jujutsu departments into yoseikan budo.

    The key here is gyokushin ryu. In the linked interview, sensei talks about his days with the last headmaster of gyokushin ryu. The old man was a shinto priest and he constantly bribed sensei to go to the classes. Sensei told me the old man even gave sensei the cakes he had offered to the gods on the shinto altar. But sensei said that the training was incredibly boring. It was all kata. He started with a couple of friends but was soon the only one left. He got about a 1st degree black belt equivalent and quit. The teacher told him, "Don't quit. It gets interesting after this. There are a lot of sutemi waza."

    But sensei was very busy with all his training and had more interest in judo randori, winning shiai and such. He never went back to the gyokushin ryu.

    Years later, after WWII, when he was teaching aikido, judo, karate and kenjutsu in France, he had many challenges from boxers, wrestlers, savate artists, fencers and so on. He took them all on but was very impressed by the wrestlers use of what we call sutemi waza or "sacrifice" techniques, which I think wrestlers call the suplex. Sensei said he realized that the sutemi waza were a direct expression of Kano Jigoro's maxim, "Maximum efficient use of energy." He began thinking then, in the early 1950s, of the gyokushin ryu and began wondering what sutemi waza it included. He felt terrible, he told me, because he remembered how kind that old teacher had been, how he had honored sensei and sensei had "run away." He really regreted it for the rest of his life.

    He found that no one had inherited the gyokushin ryu from his teacher and surmised that he was the only living holder of any kind of rank in the system. In honor of his old teacher, he began trying to recreate the gyokushin ryu as well as he could, based on the information he had and what he could find in research. After Hiroo sensei started using the term yoseikan budo, Minoru sensei decided to use the name also, but while Hiroo sensei blended his arts around karate, Minoru sensei blended everything around aiki and the gyokushin ryu.

    Gyokushin, by the way, means "spherical spirit". The teacher told him, "If you make your mind and body like a ball, nothing in life will bother you."

    Now, in the early 1970s, Minoru sensei was recreating the gyokushin ryu, trying to determine what the old techniques had been like. He said that the 1st level techniques were very much like aikido te waza, which is one reason Ueshiba Morihei was so surprised by him. Developing ideas from his research, he had his students try out the techniques he "invented." In fact, he says he never came up with an original technique, himself, but always found documentary evidence that someone else had used the same technique at some point in history. But he did find ways to turn virtually any judo or aikido technique into sutemi waza. He primarily used Patrick Auge, Akira Tezuka, Washizu (Hiromi?) and Kenmotsu shihans to do this research, along with Akahori, the judo master, Murai, the aiki and sword master, the Sugiyama brothers, and anyone else who came into his dojo. But at that time, Patrick was uchi deshi and Tezuka, Washizu and Kenmotsu lived near the hombu, so they were there all the time. Also Akahori sensei.

    Those guys, Patrick Auge as much as any of them, went with sensei through the major part of his evolutionary thinking and technical development. He was with him for about 20 years when he received the menkyo kaiden in about 1993.

    That's another interesting thing in itself. The certificates were large, with Japanese on one side and English on the other. Each certificate listed the names of every other person who received it. There were 20 in all, all awarded on one day, none before it and none after it. Patrick Auge was the only non-Japanese to receive the award. The others included Murai sensei, 9th dan, Sugiyama sensei (Italy) 9th dan, the Shizuoka Sugiyama brothers (ranks unknown) Tezuka Akira (7th dan), Washizu (7th dan), Kenmotsu (6th dan), Patrick Auge (7th dan), Akahori sensei (unknown ranks in various arts),
    "little" Mochizuki (3rd dan, unrelated to Minoru sensei) and ten others. I was at the ceremony where these were awarded.

    So I have to say that Patrick Auge is uncategorically the best representative of MINORU Mochizuki's yoseikan budo outside Japan.

    And I have met many of the world's leading yoseikan men in Japan. I know Luigi Carniel of Switzerland, Daniel Dubreille, of France, Lino LaCassia of Italy (under Sugiyama sensei). I don't know of anyone who was closer to sensei than Patrick Auge, or who studied with him anywhere nearly as long.
    David Orange, Jr.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    "That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
    Lao Tzu

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    Default O Sensei Mochizuki

    Mr. Orange has made some interesting historical references that, to my knowledge are true, as far as they go. The one error in all of this history is to separate Hiroo Mochizuki from his father. What is not known at all, outside of the Mochizuki family and others who have listended to Master Hiroo Mochizuki is that his father charged him (Hiroo) with finding the principles that would unite all of the various martial arts O Sensei Mochizuki was practicing in the Yoseikan, in 1958, 5 years before Master Hiroo went to France. During the years in France, Master Hiroo was indeed very involved in karate and was director of the French karate federation for many years but he never forgot his father's charge, to keep looking for those underlying principles.

    When O Sensei came to live with his son in France, several years ago, he demanded to be taken to workouts every day. After a long period of watching Yoseikan Budo workouts, he called his son aside and told him that he (Hiroo) had done as asked and found the uniting principles that would make Yoseikan Budo what O Sensei had always believed it to be. In a ceremony in France, O Sensei awarded all that is Yoseikan to his son. To say that Patrick Auge (who is a good martial artist in his own right) or Sugiyama (Italy) or any others are the best practitioners of Yoseikan is a grievious error. There is no Yoseikan or Yoseikan Budo outside of Hiroo Mochizuki and the Yoseikan World Federatiion. And, I might add, that I have been fortunate to have worked out with the top teachers from around the world in Yoseikan Budo and they are truly master teachers. These men (and one or two women) are the best in world at Yoseikan Budo.

    Now, as to the judo side of this, which is why this thread is on the judo forum, I am told that one of the reasons Minoru Mochizuki wasn't even higher in his rank is that he regularly disagreed with the Kodokan in what they were doing. He seems to have been an equal opportunity critic because he did the same to Daito Ryu as well. I believe that in his later years, Minoru Mochizuki came to have a better relationship with the Kodokan but he was often quoted as saying that judo was no longer judo but "go do" the way of strength and power. And, my observations of several college judo tournaments and the Olympics seems to bear this out. I will add that while the Kodokan may not be overly fond of Minoru Sensei, the French love him and venerate him as a judoka and martial artist.

    Phil Farmer
    Yoseikan World Federation
    docphil

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    Default Hiroo Mochizuki

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Farmer
    Mr. Orange has made some interesting historical references that, to my knowledge are true, as far as they go. The one error in all of this history is to separate Hiroo Mochizuki from his father.
    Of course, the father and son are inseperable, and yet they are separate. I found Hiroo sensei to be an awesome person and a spectacular martial artist, as well as a deep thinker.

    I know that Minoru sensei loved him and trained him and gave everything to him, and yet they are different. They are both great artists, but their arts were different. I know that sensei's hope was for Hiroo sensei's art to surpass his own. I have not trained much at all in Hiroo's way. But I know that it is very different from the practice that went on in the Shizuoka hombu with Minoru Sensei and his top shihans, Patrick Auge among them.

    Minoru sensei did give the menkyo kaiden to 20 people, including Patrick Auge, and each one of those men then were full masters of the art. Each will have his own expression of that art and I am advised that some of them created Sei Fu Kai in the old hombu dojo after sensei left for france, to carry on what they certainly recognized as a unique art. I don't think they actually "broke away" from Hiroo sensei in doing so.

    Anyway, as to Mochizuki sensei and kodokan, he used to sit in the kitchen in the mornings and write things. Among them, he would send letters to the kodokan and various judo magazines. He said that judo had become "judo", writing the character 'ju' as "weight" (as in taiju, or bodyweight). He said, "Judo has become a dumping ground for overweight children. Instead of "judo" (using yawara), it should be called "judo" (using "heaviness")."

    "People wrote and called me to say, 'if you don't like it, give back your black belts.'"

    He always laughed at them, but he always respected Jigoro Kano's old judo, Mifune's and Toku Sampo's. The new judo is different. Old timers like to stick with old ways.
    David Orange, Jr.

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    "That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
    Lao Tzu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Farmer
    Now, as to the judo side of this, which is why this thread is on the judo forum, I am told that one of the reasons Minoru Mochizuki wasn't even higher in his rank is that he regularly disagreed with the Kodokan in what they were doing.
    The reason he disagreed is that they were going in a very different direction than Jigoro Kano intended. Mochizuki Sensei was one of the members of the Classical Budo Research Group, which Kano sensei founded to ensure that classical Japanese arts and spirit would not be lost from the kodokan. That is how Mochizuki sensei became highly respected in aikido and katori shinto ryu as well as karate and kobudo. While he pursued these arts at Kano's direction, the kodokan was turning toward international Olympic sport thinking and after Kano died, they didn't want any classical swordsmanship or jujutsu or karate. They may have hosted some demonstrations or study groups since then, but the emphasis has not been on traditional Japanese art or spirit, but on the Olympics and international thinking. That has shifted the judo emphasis to competition, tokui waza and weight classes, resulting in overreliance on size and weight, among other things.

    This is what he used to complain about all the time. He was always talking about "Kano Jigoro sensei wa ne..."

    It took a long time for a lot of that to really sink in with me.

    As for the best representative of Minoru Sensei's art outside Japan, mateo made the suggestion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo
    Probably the student who best represents his particular approach outside of Japan would be Patrick Auge who now lives in California.
    And having known mateo in Japan, having sat together with him and Mochizuki sensei, I know what he means.

    It's rather like Ueshiba sensei leaving aikikai to Kisshomaru sensei. He told Kisshomaru what he wanted to be done in the future, but this was very different from what he, himself, had actually done and taught throughout his life. He didn't try to go back to all his pre-war students and try to make them forget what he had taught them. He might have stated moral reasons that they should not teach deadly techniques or whatever, but his prewar art was clearly very different from his post-war art. Many people have criticized Minoru sensei for not dropping the pre-war ways. And in a similar way, people now criticize Patrick Auge for wanting to keep what he had learned from a very great master.

    Mateo saw a very distinct art on his various visits to the yoseikan shizuoka hombu. This is the art to which he referred and Patrick Auge is undoubtedly the most accurate representation of that art outside Japan.

    Hiroo sensei has his own great art, but Patrick Auge does what Minoru sensei did for many decades and that is legitimate.
    David Orange, Jr.

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    "That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
    Lao Tzu

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    Default Legitimacy

    "There is no Yoseikan or Yoseikan Budo outside of Hiroo Mochizuki and the Yoseikan World Federation. "

    I don't think that it serves anyone to claim that any one person is more legitimate in continuing on the path their teacher placed them upon than any other who was put on a somewhat different path.

    Ueshiba Kisshomaru's aikido is no less what it is for the existance of Tomiki's, Shioda's, Saito's or Tohei's. Besides, the different paths to the top of the mountain will continue to exist whether we follow them, acknowledge them, or pretend they don't exist. They remain despite anything or attitude that we may have toward them. We don't have to take them, or like them but to pretend that they don't exist is just folly.

    Tezuka-sensei, Washizu-sensei were the 2 senior teachers who were actively training while I was in Shizuoka. I remember "Kimiwane" and he was there training and was certainly 'in the know' to what was going on at the hombu. Patrick Auge was a name that was highly respected on the lips of Mochizuki-sensei and was always considered part of his 'family' while I was there (1991).
    Matthew Rogers
    Scarborough Martial Arts Training Group
    http://www.spiritforging.com

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    Default

    Matthew,

    After viewing your website am I understanding correctly that you only trained in Yoseikan for a few months?

    If that is the case, I hardly find that enough time, even at the former hombu, to really know the inner workings of Yoseikan Budo.

    Minoru made it very clear in a public ceremony that he turned ALL control of Yoseikan over to Hiroo. So - Phil is correct in his comments about there being no Yoseikan outside of Hiroo Mochizuki.

    Auge Sensei was indeed that close and dear to Master Minoru AT THAT TIME.

    As for the two senior teachers you mentioned - Upon seeing them doing the Seifukai Minoru stated they were no longer doing Yoseikan and to sell the (hombu) dojo.
    Robert Cheshire
    Yoseikan Teacher
    www.yoseikanbudo.us
    www.fagri-igraf.org/

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    MarkF Guest

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    As to what happened to the Kodokan or Kano's Judo, one must remember that after developing the original randori and kata, Kano built the organization with much input from others, and not just his early students. Those who had input were those from whom Kano asked to help contribute to the original syllabus, and the Kodokan has continued doing just that. Also, one must remember that it was not the Kodokan or Kano, especially not Kano, who acted to make judo what it became after 1920. While juo continued to flourish, it slowly became something that was not the Kodokan. Kano complained of the lack of capable teachers after the horses had been let out of the barn. But by then, Kano had little to do with the direction of Judo. As he believed he could not build the organization by himself, he left much of that to others while he internationalized Judo. Many believe his dream was judo in the Olympic Games. This was not Kano's idea, but perhaps it was a mistake on his part not to take a more proactive role. He said when asked this question that "Judo is not a game" but that he would not stand in the way of anyone who did so. Besides, he felt the introduction of sports to Japan to be a far more important quest than was Judo.

    But he complained and few heard. He said fairly early on that there were not enough qualified instructors and that those who did teach had to return to the way of the randori of the Kodokan. My own opinion is that he did not realized what was happening at the Kodokan as he had largely become a figure head there. People revered him, but when he was around, they wanted to learn something, anything he had to say on kodokan waza.

    When speaking of the Olympic movement, tokui waza, and what many feel is a mistake, it was NOT the Kodokan which marketed a different kind of Judo, it was as Kano said: "I will not stand in anyone's way..." thus after WWII, judo, out of the necessity of occupation had to make it a sporting activity with multiple goals to appease those that be. While shiai had been a part of Kodokan Judo almost from the beginning, it was a symbolic form of combat that was necessary, not because people demanded it be a sport but because it was, at least those in committee which formed the syllabus believed that as they entered a new world something was necessary to take the place of the old, where people were not hurt routinely, but that there had to be an obvious end to this form of symbolic combat. Randori with weapons is nearly impossible, not in the way Kano envisioned it, so something in its place had to be devised, and as Kano was the first to say "we need rules to they will know who won." Many want to blame the modern judoka (they deserve some of the blame when much of the old was lost, but it was heading that way, anyway, so blame isn't really the word, it was more like a responsibility to the general public), but they are not to blame, either.

    No single person gets the credit or the blame because that is how Kano's Kodokan was developed. Certainly strength and power have taken some of the technique out of judo so that winning could be accomplished more quickly. The younger ones especially after WWII had developed a stronger body with more natural strength while those of Kano's generation did not. In fact most were in very bad physical condition, and in the book "Judo Kyohan" Yokoyama is quoted, a paraphrase: "Those of master Kano's time were smaller, weaker men who did not have the advantage of good exercise and training methods and look at how great they were. Can you imagine what judo may have been if they were stronger and bigger as judoka are today?"

    He had a point. It was natural for one to use strength, in particular th young ones, so as randori was the main training excercise, tournaments became more common, the younger judo players had no choice if they were to succeed. As I am finding out very quickly after some forty-two years of training, the Judo intended for everyone back in the day, is the only way of playing randori. No one likes to take many, hard falls in every class, so bit by bit, those who are becoming elders are finding that it is Kata where the true judo lies. Without learning and perfecting tsukuri/kuzushi correctly, and as Kano said about strength when it was taking the place of waza, "Certainly, some strength is necessary, but it must be used in short spurts and using the correct muscles. If one does not, one tires quickly. Strength should only come in the hips and shoulders and at the correct moment." (another paraphrase).

    I do not see judo as different or worse or bad or good, it is just taking its natural course. The young ones will use the strength in all their muscles if it means they will win, but they will use the technique in randori. Later, when lots of randori takes too much from them, they will turn to kata and new ways of using the randori no kata. After relearning the lower kata they will move on to the upper kata to learn what was really right in front of them all along. It has always been in the kata, but few used kata for anything but improving randori and thus shiai.
    **********'

    As to some leaving the kata temporarily by the urging of Mr. Kano, that is true, but no one was sent away to do something better than judo could provide, some just were better and/or needed other input. I think this is misunderstood to a degree, but essentially correct. Most came back to the Kodokan, but while they watched thought "This is not MY judo." They were right, it wasn't.

    Judo technique today is not worse in any way than it was, the technique has only gotten better. People mistake this due to the spread of contest judo by the IJF. The Kodokan was NOT involved with this, they had their own style, but changes had to be made to allow for what people around the globe wante, it could not be stopped.

    There is also much to be learned in a situation of all out, no pulling of punches style judo. While many of the most dangerous waza were relegated to kata, much of it is as it was, one needs only open ones'eyes.

    At least that is what I have come to realize. In teaching judo, let the younger, stronger students play judo as they learn best, but also make sure that kata is part of the practice if even a small part. Later, they will be thankful.

    One person who posts on E-budo said "Judo has been demartialized." I do not think that is true nor is it the point. In fact, the point can be missed entirely. The idea from the beginning was a symbolic fight "to the death" but death is whatever the judge said it was. It isn't so different today. Don't like the rules? Neither do I, but then shiai has actually been scored the same way. The major differences besides weight classes (this is not written in stone, by the way. No dojo is forced to follow a single rule of the International body, but it is probably a good idea to follow those of the Kodokan), tokui waza, and shido, is that now, the same scores the shinban used to keep in his head has now been brought forth so everyone can see them, not just the referee. Sometimes, there is something missing in this manner, but others, like Tomiki, saw the value in shiai, and it need not be your goal, but participation is probably a good idea as you just may learn something you cannot learn in the dojo.

    I believe those of Minoru Mochizuki's generation learned something different, as early on, only full-grown adults would be admitted. Maturity is sometimes lost on the young just like youth is wasted on them.

    But we all know the situation, so deal with it. Take advantage where you can.


    Mark

    PS: I was not trying to bring this thread back on track or anything of the sort, and I would love to learn mose of Mochizuki so please do not stop discussing Yoseikan, it really is one of the most original ideas of budo to come down the pipe.

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    Default Jigoro Kano

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkF
    As to what happened to the Kodokan or Kano's Judo...
    That's something to think about, surely.

    A deep understanding of Japanese society is necessary to make any meaningful comments about any of their arts and your comments illustrate that understanding. Judo is a very complex art, shaped by Japanese society, changing times, and global society.

    I would like to go back a little further, though, and talk a little more deeply about what Jigoro Kano did.

    Mochizuki sensei's favorite way to spend a summer Sunday afternoon, after a couple of sweltering hours of aikido sutemi randori, was to have us all sit on our knees and hear a long, long talk about Jigoro Kano sensei.

    We would finally finish randori, say the seikun, clap to the kamiza, bow to the kamiza, then to sensei, and then it was over and we could go lie down.

    Except that sensei wouldn't get up. You couldn't get up until he did. He would sit there and clear his throat, a picture of Morihei Ueshiba over one shoulder, Jigoro Kano over the other.

    He would say, "Mukashi ni, Kano Jigoro sensei wa ne..." (Long ago, Jigoro Kano sensei...)

    and then would come the lecture. Long lectures, sitting in seiza, exhausted. Even the seniors would be shifting on their knees. They had heard many of those talks. I wish I could hear one now. He would give me private versions at various hours of the day or night when I had a free moment and he happened to think of it.

    Thinking back, over the ten years since I saw him, I gradually came to understand a lot of what he was telling me. Now Jigoro Kano has more influence on me than ever.

    Everyone must have heard how judo is based on physics and momentum, but Kano's original idea was literally to "teach" physics and rationality to his juku students. He had a number of young men living under his roof and receiving personal tutelage from him. He trained them in jujutsu as self defense, but soon came to recognize that he could teach high-level intellectual principles through the techniques.

    Sensei had a big, square magnifying glass that he would pull out when he thought I didn't understand something. He said, the first principle was "go-ri". He got out his fine-print Japanese-English dictionary and looked it up, held the magnifying glass over it, and I saw it there with his magnified index finger: "go-ri" (in kanji) and below it, the English "rationality". Harmony-principle. Rationality.

    He explained that, after the Meiji Revolution, the samurai class ended, Japanese society was largely directionless. There was a government, but they were far away and high above. The common man had no guide to find his way through life. Kano was highly educated and spoke and wrote fluent English. He had menkyo in three jujutsu styles, but he recognized that the future lay in teaching Japanese people rationality and physics. Otherwise, they were led by the various superstitions and their friends wild-hair schemes to get ahead.

    Judo presented them with physical problems that they learned to solve by applying reason and principles of physics, analyze the elements, find the strong and weak points, consider momentum and leverage and adjust the movement to take advantage of those things.

    When you had properly figured out the "equations," you could come back and win.

    Further, his ten dan system was very clear. An early European judo teacher, Moshe Feldenkrais, said that Kano sent him a series of movies showing an absolutely clear progression of the ranks, with shodan fighting ikkyu, nidan fighting shodan, sandan fighting nidan, and the progression, up into nanadan, was strikingly obvious. Each level represented a more perfect organization of movement and use of resources. The lower levels were always more disorganized and less efficient. Mifune sensei was once asked, "I'm bigger and stronger, yet you always beat me. Why is that?" Mifune said, "Where you take three steps, I take two."

    Of the old jujutsu systems that Kano had studied, much of it was based on earlier masters' tokui abilities. Say one had an especially strong grip. He could do certain techniques that would not work at all for a weaker man. But because he was the master, he could incorporate that technique into the katas and the official curriculum of the ryu. And some things had been passed down in misunderstood form. Motivation for some techniques was superstition. And some were simply so natural that they couldn't be left out. It was these that Kano naturally kept in judo. The others, he discarded or modified. So everything in judo is based on physics and reason.

    Something I haven't seen mentioned at all in several posts on Kano is that he early on became Minister of Education of Japan, which made him someone like Bill Bennet or Everett Koop, able to access the highest members of Japanese society and able to touch the lives of every common citizen through the schools and their curriculum.

    It was through these connections that Kano was able to get Mochizuki sensei into the most elite bujutsu training in Japan. He took Gichin Funakoshi under his wing and showed him how to make his karate palatable to Japanese society. And that included using the black belt dan system. And Mochizuki was there. Kano was also able to place Mochizuki in the katori shinto ryu sword/bujutsu school and with Morihei Ueshiba in daito ryu aikijujutsu. It was largely through Mochizuki and Tomiki's influence that Ueshiba added the black belt dan system to his art.

    Much has been said on this forum about how judo has remained rather monolithic while aikido has splintered. And it is largely a factor of the nature of the two teachers. Mochizuki sensei loved Morihei Ueshiba as a teacher and a friend. I think he loved and respected Kano sensei even more as a great leader and thinker. He never stopped talking about what Kano intended and he continued to teach judo as he felt Kano intended, developing both sides of the body equally in a full range of techniques.

    We should all look more closely at Jigoro Kano to better understand any Japanese budo of the 20th century and beyond.

    Best wishes.
    David Orange, Jr.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    "That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
    Lao Tzu

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    Default Yoseikan Budo and Issues of Legitimacy

    First of all, I make no claims to knowing the interworkings of the former Yoseikan hombu and did not have the honor of meeting Minoru Mochizuki personally, although Yoseikan has had a profound influence on me personally. I have however trained with both Patrick Auge, Tezuka Sensei and Hiroo Mochizuki and will say that both are excellent teachers and budoka of the highest caliber.

    I do know however, that Minoru Sensei was disheartened to learn that his senior students (including Auge Sensei) had decided to ignore his wishes regarding the evolution of Yoseikan, which he entrusted into the more than capable hands of his son.

    Yoseikan has never been a stagnant art. In fact, it goes against the very nature of Minoru's teachings and approach to budo to set any principle, idea, or curriculum in stone. Hiroo Mochizuki has inherited more than the position of Soke from his father. He also stresses the evolutionary nature of Yoseikan both in technique and personal development. Does his Yoseikan look exactly like what was practiced by Minoru Sensei? No it does not, but I firmly believe that all that was present in Minoru's Yoseikan is present in the Yoseikan of his son. It may not appear that way at first, but if you look carefully and mindfully and notice everything the way Minoru Sensei is reputed to have done, you will see it.

    With that said, I feel that legitimacy is not about technique. Auge Sensei, and the instructors that formed the Seifukai are without a doubt technically skilled and true masters of the art as they were taught it by Minoru Mochizuki. Legitimacy is about whether or not you are following the spirit of the art and the wishes of the creator of that art. By being rigid and unwilling to follow the path of change set before them by their teacher, those Sensei that choose to remain fixated in keeping Yoseikan exactly as it was taught to them against the wishes of Minoru Mochizuki are not legitimate at all. They have forgotten the very essence of what Yoseikan is about, which is evolution and adaptation. Technique changes, the spirit of the art is what matters. If you forget the spirit of the art then you lose your claim of legitimacy. Without that techniques are merely variations on what you would find in a variety of martial arts.

    These are only my opinions. Please take them for what they are worth to you.
    Matt Gilliard
    Instructor Yoseikan Budo

  14. #14
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    Default Yoseikan lineages

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cheshire
    Minoru made it very clear in a public ceremony that he turned ALL control of Yoseikan over to Hiroo. So - Phil is correct in his comments about there being no Yoseikan outside of Hiroo Mochizuki.
    Well, many people said that about Mochizuki sensei, himself, that he shouldn't use the name "aikido" if he didn't follow exactly what Kisshomaru was doing at that time. But since he got the menkyo kaiden, he had the right.

    This is not to compare Hiroo Mochizuki in any way to Kisshomaru Ueshiba. Mochizuki Minoru used to walk Kisshomaru sensei to school holding an umbrella over his head. Kisshomaru had a lot of respect for Minoru sensei and it would never have been proper for him to be Minoru sensei's "teacher" or even his "leader."

    In Hiroo sensei's case, he has the full knowledge of Minoru sensei's techniques and has benefited also from Minoru sensei's experience with injuries. He seems remarkably young for his age, yet also wise for his age--and he's at a wise man's age. Minoru sensei also seemed much younger than his years, but with Hiroo sensei it is different. He seems to be in much better shape than Minoru sensei was at that age. He was taught to mastery by a truly great master and he has built upon that.

    Still, put yourself in the gi of some of these people like Auge and the Shizuoka shihans who plowed the furrow behind Minoru sensei for a quarter century, meeting and teaching tough guys from all over the world.

    They get the menkyo kaiden after all those years, they might feel ready to follow their own road after their sensei dies. If your sensei dies, do you go and get under another sensei?

    Well, that's the tradition of the ryuha. However, once those guys got the menkyo kaiden, they were recognized as masters of the art. You can't take back what you've given. Part of the ryuha tradition is breaking away. But these guys never broke away from their teacher. They just went their own ways after he died. Just like Shioda and Minoru sensei started their own branch of the school. That's the meaning of the menkyo, after all: you can start your own branch.

    Auge Sensei was indeed that close and dear to Master Minoru AT THAT TIME.
    As for the two senior teachers you mentioned - Upon seeing them doing the Seifukai Minoru stated they were no longer doing Yoseikan and to sell the (hombu) dojo.
    Nobody could get closer to Minoru Mochizuki than Patrick Auge, Tezuka, Washizu and the other Shizuoka shihans except Hiroo sensei himself. A hundred years from now, we will be better off to have students of the Washizu ryu, the Tezuka ryu and the Auge ryu of yoseikan budo as well as the main ryu of Mochizuki Hiroo. Unless he does something to stop them legally, history will recognize these legitimate menkyo holders as legitimate lines of yoseikan budo.
    David Orange, Jr.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    "That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
    Lao Tzu

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    Default Matt Rogers

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cheshire
    After viewing your website am I understanding correctly that you only trained in Yoseikan for a few months?...I hardly find that enough time, even at the former hombu, to really know the inner workings of Yoseikan Budo.
    Robert, that might be true for an ordinary amateur martial artist, but Matthew Rogers is of a different breed.

    He was a green belt when he showed up at the yoseikan, wanting to learn about the relationship between the founder of hapkido (Choi Jun Sul [?]) and Takeda Sokaku. I thought this took a lot of courage for a green belt, but then I learned that he had been training for some five years, by then, with Hwang In-Shik, a direct student of the founder of hapkido. Matt showed me some te waza that were obviously closely related to the original daito ryu, nerve manipulations like we did not do at the yoseikan, very powerful techniques. And his striking skill was also highly developed. He had the kind of power already that I felt when Hiroo Mochizuki lightly struck me. It penetrated my body and radiated through me. I took strikes from a lot of people from around the world while I was at the yoseikan, but Matt's striking power was outstanding. I knew soon after meeting Matt that he was accomplished in his own right. He didn't come to the yoseikan behind someone else's hakama. He found his way to the door and came in asking for Minoru Mochizuki.

    Sensei granted Matt an audience after he trained with us for a bit. He was not hesitant getting on the tatami with all the shihans and he conducted himself very properly. He had his hapkido background but he also had a lot of judo experience, so he didn't "stick out" but blended in very well. He already had what the Japanese call "sei" as in Yoseikan. It is inner rightness and he got respect for it in Japan not because of his rank. And that inner correctness brought him close to sensei.

    We asked sensei about Choi and how he might have been connected to Takeda Sokaku but Matt didn't have any photographs from the time and sensei had never been very close to Takeda anyway, but he did enjoy considering the issue with Matt and he tried to help him as he could.

    Matt trained at the hombu for awhile and left with the respect of everyone he met there.

    So he did get a good look at the yoseikan, but more importantly, his sight was already seasoned and he knew what to look for, so he understood by experience and not be being told.

    Also, after he left, he continued touring Japan for any further information on his hapkido teacher's teacher. He went to many of the top daito ryu instructors in Japan and trained directly with them, looking for the roots of his art. He seems not to have found them. The relationship between Choi and Takeda Sokaku remains murky and unverifiable.

    However, since then, Matt has continued to train in daito ryu and in related sword arts. So his comments come from a deep background in aiki arts and close connections in the traditional ryuha.

    So when he reports what he saw, and what he knows, it does bear weight.

    As for the two senior teachers you mentioned - Upon seeing them doing the Seifukai Minoru stated they were no longer doing Yoseikan and to sell the (hombu) dojo.
    The old hombu. Last I heard, Mochizuki sensei's son, Tetsuma, was the actual owner. He was very close with Tezuka and Washizu. I always heard that Tetsuma was a great karate man, but I don't know of anyone who ever saw him do karate. I heard that when he taught, he was so severe that everyone quit right away. He made his living as a bone doctor and his clinic was also called Yoseikan. He respected Tezuka and the others for their tireless service to Minoru sensei as he aged.

    Last time I was there, 10/2003, the dojo was still a dojo and the sign said "Sei Fu Kai".

    Here's wishing long life, health and harmony to Hiroo Mochizuki and all his family, and to Tezuka, Washizu, Kenmotsu and Patrick Auge, their families and descendants, and to yoseikan budo, the finest wine distilled from the Japanese martial traditions of the 20th Century and into the depths of history.
    David Orange, Jr.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    "That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
    Lao Tzu

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