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Thread: Is this legitimate Shinkage?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt henseler
    Mr. deMonch-
    No, there are no kata taught to us, no techniques with those names. I won't comment on or try to defend that position, I will let my sensei do it (who I will be talking to today.)
    What'd he say?
    Increase My Killing Power, Eh?
    -Homer Simpson

  2. #47
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    I made him aware of the thread, although he didnt say whether or not he would sign on and join in. Hopefull he does, so this can be resolved.
    -Matt Henseler

  3. #48
    Yakibasama Guest

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    Ya know, I was with a friend of mine from Missouri he said he had visited chikara dojo once before. During his visit he observed Sensei Kilgore hypnotize an opponent thus makeing victory inevitable. Things went wrong however when the guy he hypnotized began reliving a story line involving Kenshin Himura. The opponent, thinking he was in fact Kenshin Himura was able to use the Hiten Mitsurugi tschnique made famouse in the manga. Sensei Kilgore was actually knocked unconsciouse by the hypnotized guy's bokuto.
    Aparantly, when sensei kilgore awoke, he imediately made the hynotized guy an advanced student. I think he might be dabbling in the dillman technique as well, but I have never heard of him using dim mak on anyone.
    ~Bill

  4. #49
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    It's a pretty simple matter for him to 'resolve' this.

    Post his teacher's name and how his teacher is linked into the Shinkage ryu lineage.

    If he has learnt Shinkage ryu and then decides to show his students 1% of it, without names/kata etc. then that's up to him. However, if he hasn't learnt Shinkage ryu but is teaching the techniques of the school, then he is acting fraudulently, lying to his students and generally displaying all the hallmarks of 'bad budo'.

    It's that simple. No-one on here likes people who claim something for the sake of ego. Your sensei may be genuine, but until he resolves this, the guy and his dojo will be suspect and his students will be pitied for being taken in by another donkey with a wallhanger.
    Scott Halls
    Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu - Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iai
    兵法二天一流剣術 - 無双直伝英信流居合

  5. #50
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    Mr. Jackson,
    People are trying to get answers to legitimate questions here. Your bufoonery and make believe world are out of place. Please refrain in the future.

    Thank you.
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

  6. #51
    Yakibasama Guest

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    Mr Smith!
    I am Seriouse!
    Is that how you spell ceriouse?
    Anyway, the guy is a complete nut job. No one fight with wooden swords anymore! No one uses spears and such! It's dojos like this that give the rest of us a bad name. how could anyone "learn" how to fight with a bokken?
    sheesh, gimme a break.
    ~Bill

  7. #52
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    In doing kenjutsu waza or various other drills, you can get pretty banged up from your partner's bokuto. Training in koryu heiho is generally pretty rough, so I don't find stories of cracked open knuckles, bruised clavicles, etc to be unusual or of any particular interest within the context of this discussion.
    As a student of Shinkage Ryu myself, I'm interested in their system and where it comes from.
    Increase My Killing Power, Eh?
    -Homer Simpson

  8. #53
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    how could anyone "learn" how to fight with a bokken?
    Mr. Jackson,
    Every school of Japanese sword uses bokken at some point or another. Every single one. Personally, I think you are just another troll trying to derail this thread.
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottUK
    It's a pretty simple matter for him to 'resolve' this.

    Post his teacher's name and how his teacher is linked into the Shinkage ryu lineage.

    If he has learnt Shinkage ryu and then decides to show his students 1% of it, without names/kata etc. then that's up to him. However, if he hasn't learnt Shinkage ryu but is teaching the techniques of the school, then he is acting fraudulently, lying to his students and generally displaying all the hallmarks of 'bad budo'.

    It's that simple. No-one on here likes people who claim something for the sake of ego. Your sensei may be genuine, but until he resolves this, the guy and his dojo will be suspect and his students will be pitied for being taken in by another donkey with a wallhanger.
    Excellently put. This should be copied and pasted every time something like this comes up.
    We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular. Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

  10. #55
    Yakibasama Guest

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    Why exactly does anyone here care about where or what this guy is doing? If he is doing something you don't agree with are you likly to go to his door and tell him to stop?
    if you do and he does not, then what?
    Are you likly to test your own prowess against his? To what end?
    Is he calling your art into question or bashing you? Regardless of the reasons an individual gives, how are you guys to make claims you are not able to prove or disprove?
    There is no more dojo arashi. Perhaps Mr Hensler is a good guy just looking for like minded people. You attack him and his kind without ever setting foot in his dojo. Likley a place that requires perserverence and spirit. Perhaps more than you can imagine.
    Who are you to claim anything these days about anyone else.

  11. #56
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    Why exactly does anyone here care about where or what this guy is doing?
    And why exactly do you care what the people here are doing Mr. "Jackson?"
    Who are you to claim anything these days about anyone else.
    Why is it that only those with something to hide get upset when people ask questions? I've heard questions asked of many martial artists. The only ones that ever got upset were the ones with dubious or downright fraudulent claims. So which are you Mr. "Jackson?"
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

  12. #57
    Yakibasama Guest

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    To the Honorable Matt Hensler:

    Ah, ya got me Matt. I will drop you some clues. Be aware, thats all I have.

    Rohwer internment camp, Arkansas. I been there. Awful place, middle of a swamp. Masanobu Yoshinaga. The bigger question. The one I cant Answer for you is why were almost all of the 442nd intelligence guys named Yoshinaga.
    Really, this is about as strange as it gets. I have ideas, but they are ill formed and not verifyable. It might be part of the reason you are haveing such a hard time. I think it could be symptomatic of your own instructors reasons for doing things the way he does. You cant keep a secrete you don't have right? You can't mess stuff up that way. Not likly that it is very important to keeping an art alive at any rate. Likly a sore spot for disscussion though. I am sure there were arguments. I am sure there was a falling out. That goes along way to explaining things too. I think there were something like ten thousand Japanese people there. It's not suprising that more than a few ended up staying relativly close to the region.
    As for the rest of you. Train hard.
    The only real proof is in the pudding.
    Drop me a line sometime Matt.
    Hope this helped.
    ~Bill

  13. #58
    Yakibasama Guest

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    heh, mr smith....
    Man, thats about as generic a name as I have ever heard...
    "Mr. Smith" I am afraid you are attempting to deconstruct something that you don't understand. Actually, at the end of the day none of it is worth anything anyway. Leave Matt alone, he got what he was looking for. And for the record. I do not care what you are doing. I am too busy with my own stuff to even blink at you. Adios.
    Train hard.
    ~Bill

  14. #59

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    As one of the teachers at Chikara Dojo, were I to answer the original poster it would have been to say that no, I cannot claim to teach in any lineage of any branch of the Shinkage-Ryu and without a properly documented award of rank from a school which can show a fully accredited lineage I never will make such a claim. Whatever claims others make is their problem but for me personally I limit such claims to respectfully acknowledging that ryu as the foundation of the school of which I am a member. To claim anything more would be inappropriate but it would be equally unacceptable to me if I were to omit that acknowledgement, since my own teacher informed me that his teacher claimed that lineage.

    I have also just perused the referenced thread on kendoworld and taking the two threads together I am personally revolted at the arrogance displayed by persons claiming to be members of the same dojo as I. I do not recall any time in our training where it was suggested that such an attitude was appropriate for any budoka, particularly since on martial arts related forums even the most junior student is speaking to some extent as a representative of the dojo as a whole.

    Fortunately there are many people here who are also members of the kendoworld forums so to readers of both threads I offer my heartfelt apologies for such behaviour and would ask that those of you who are members of both forums please pass them on to kendoworld members who do not read this one. Fortunately the disgusting and degrading flamewar that sullied the referenced thread was not in evidence here, for which I thank you all.

    There are a couple of things on this thread that I wish to respond to directly...

    I do not believe Bill Jackson has ever visited Chikara Dojo. I was training under Mr. Kilgore since before the dojo name changed to "Chikara" (after a breakup of the previous business partnership) and no such incidents as he relates occurred at any sessions I attended. Given the level of social interaction between members outside a dojo setting I can be pretty confident that I would have heard of it if they had occurred when I was not present.

    Matt Henseler referred to an occasion where a student "grazed his knee during noto"... I think I can honestly claim a more accurate recollection of that incident since it was my knee... Screwups happen and on that occasion I made three separate ones, the most significant of which was training when I was just too strungout stressed and exhausted. It wasn't during noto it was during a kneeling turn into a tsuki to my rear left and not only was I too wiped to get it right I was too wiped to freeze the technique quickly enough when I realized I'd got it that badly wrong. As a result my left knee ate the kissaki. I'm actually glad this was a live weapon, since it would have been more damaging to receive the same injury from the point of a iaito. I know of only one injury to a student during noto and that occurred outside the dojo whilst he was working at home without supervision.

    Just as it is for Mr Birtolo, who posted on the kendoworld thread, for me this dojo is simply a place to learn kenjutsu from a teacher I trust no matter the lineage of the school, its documentation or lack of it. In addition I have the privilege of assisting him in passing those skills on to the other students. Once again, please accept my apologies for my failure to properly teach that in budo one must check the ego at the door. Whatever anyone else at the dojo may or may not post in this thread, I am deeply ashamed.

  15. #60
    Yakibasama Guest

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    Mr. Booth,
    You are a grace. Please continue.
    ~Bill

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