"Aikido is not a martial art"

[Roy3]

Aikido is not a martial art!!??!! Oddly this is what I’m both reading, and being told by high ranking Aikidoka. “We don’t teach martial arts here!” This is what one of the instructors would say at the dojo, where I spent a few years at. I found this statement to be confusing maybe even asinine, for the dojo was listed in the phone book under martial arts. The instructor, whom seemed to take pride in herself every time she made this statement, was a small 130-140 pound semi-retired women, who was able to fling my bloated carcass around like a rag doll. I have to admit, I did, and still do admire her skill and discipline. But then she would say things like, “some time soon I expect to be enlightened.” I truly felt that she believed Aikido was the vehicle that would take her to “enlightenment.” I found the routine of attending the dojo, and the manner in which the techniques are done to be somewhat stern, for me the aikido classes had that sober feeling that reminded me of going to church with my parents as a child. All the well to do members listening and following instruction with a sort of righteous ego, very similar to a Sunday mass service. The funny thing with all this fussy warm goody two shoes atmosphere, there are always a few members who always seem to torque your arm just a little more then they needed to. I’m not sure if they do this because they are tacking upon themselves to take you under there wing to teach you well, or if its because they both, like hurting people, and/or have something to prove. Either way getting your arm torque ked on for an hour half can’t be all that beneficial to your health, and many of the member at that dojo where wristbands etc… So, I’m not so sure about the claimed health benefits. Well??? As I’m writing this I can’t help but feel that I may be venting a little to much, perhaps Aikido is simply not for me, and or I’m not a big enough person to understand or appreciate Aikido. Although, a big part of me is compelled and drawn to Aikido, but I just can’t help feeling like something is missing, or something is not quite right with Aikido.

[Howard Thiery]

while I know where this is coming from philosophically....it is at base root hogwash. Aikido is very much gendai budo and therefore a martial art. You may pursue it for other reasons but that does not change the nature of the art. I believe that othes may chime in and point at this as another example of the fluffy bunnyzation of aikido and I would have to agree.

just my 2 cents,

H

[David T Anderson]

A great many modern Aikidoka, even the seniors, have a very skewed idea of what O Sensei was doing when he created Aikido. [so here comes _my_ skewed view...].

Ueshiba was born after the end of the Samurai era, but he grew up among men who _were_ Samurai. During his lifetime he saw how the old samurai arts were being perverted by the new 20th Century concepts of war and conflict, destroying old conventions and turning into a total war model featuring widespread death and destruction. Before the advent of industialized warfare in the 19th century, was a game for politicians and generals that didn't very much threaten underlying civilization. Now, the fanaticism and cruelty of warrior classes could be energised by modern tools and energies, and he saw this, with increasing misgivings during his lifetime, and especially in the run up to WW2 and the ensuing war and post-war period.

Ueshiba wanted to redirect the energy of men [people] that were inured to violence, both personal and political. He wanted to adapt the techniques of killing into a technique of harmless defence to stop the cycle of killing and revenge...to show that the way of the warrior was not death, but defense of _all_ life...even that of an enemy who might someday be persuaded to be your friend.

Sure, a lot of this was mixed up with Omoto-ryu mysticism and plain old hogwash...a lot of what O Sensei wrote was just nuts, but it's terribly impressive to people that have a taste for it, and some westerners swallow it whole...and Aikido becomes not a martial art, but a kind of 'keeping elephants away' method that will somehow create peace through cranking the other guy's wrist and shoulder and thumping him down on the floor.

The point of Aikido is to teach the good guys that hatred and fear and lethal technique is unnecessary and undesireable. The bad guys need to be taught that they don't have to fear and hate either...and that their destructive and violent attacks will get them nowhere. Today's bad guy might even be persuaded to be a good guy, if you don't give him a reason to fear and hate you, and show him a better way. [Yeah, that's pretty optimistic and maybe not very realistic...but it might be worth the effort just the same.]

Most moderns have no idea about violence. Sure, we see it on TV and in movies, but we practically never see it up close and personal...and when we do, we call 911. When society breaks down from time to time, it's quickly set right by The State, and everything goes back to normal. The lesson that we have to depend on our own grubby-fingered efforts to ensure the peace in society becomes an uncomfortable dream that's quickly forgotten. Budo becomes meaningless for the average person, and anyway, it's just a lot of killing and violence and teenage boys trying to be tough, isn't it? The vision of the modern Budoka is just a fantasy for kids right? You own a sword? Who do you think you are, Duncan MacLeod?

Aikido is about defeating the violence in our own hearts _first_, and then moving on to defeating violence in the rest of the world. But if some people don't really know what violence actually is, they are going to get confused about what it takes to deal with it. Likewise, some people who can't get over the idea that the martial arts _must_ involve destructive force [aka violence] miss the point too, and turn Ueshiba's purpose on its head.

So yes, there are dojo that just don't 'get Aikido', despite the fact that they think they are practicing it. It's worth the effort to discover one that does...

[John J. Montes]

a ha..."I see"...said the blind man.....

[P Goldsbury]

Well??? As I’m writing this I can’t help but feel that I may be venting a little to much, perhaps Aikido is simply not for me, and or I’m not a big enough person to understand or appreciate Aikido. Although, a big part of me is compelled and drawn to Aikido, but I just can’t help feeling like something is missing, or something is not quite right with Aikido.

Mr Lecair,

Your last sentence gives me some concern, for your judgments about the art itself appear to be based on your experiences in one dojo. I have practised aikido regularly in three countries and have encountered the 'church service' atmosphere in one dojo in the US. I do not know why this is and so can only make guesses. Perhaps it has something to do with puritanism.

I will go to practise this evening here in Hiroshima and the only talking, if there is any, will be about how to do the waza (moves/techniques) properly. I have trained in dojos where long explanatory lectures are given on what aikido is. I am afraid that I do not take such lectures very seriously, even when they are given by highly accomplished technicians. Perhaps its age creeping on.

It is suffiicient for me to know that aikido is a budo, which is usually translated as a martial art or martial way. The difference between an art (jutsu) and a way (do) is not particularly relevant here. Part of the problem here is that the absence of matches or contests means that there is even less of an objective standard to measure progress in what is essentially an artificial activity, i.e., a fighting art where there is no real fighting. Rather than accept this, people are tempted to offer substitute explanations, dealing with enlightenment and world peace etc etc.

Of course, I know that the Founder also gave long explanations, involving deities, the harmony of the universe and so on. Much is lost in translation and this is also part of the problem.

Best regards,

[Roy3]

Mr Goldsbury

In response to your comment, “your judgments about the art itself appear to be based on your experiences in one dojo," is correct!! I have visited other dojos and found them to be exceptional, particularly a Kokeiki dojo in Seattle. I remember a 7th dan Aikidoka at the Seattle dojo said,” Aikido is a marshal art and not a way of life.” Where here the saying is “Aikido is a way of life and not a martial art.”

[pickensjg]

Hi Roy,

I have found that in life, we get out of it what we want to get out of it, and so it is with Aikido.

Take from Aikido what you want, whether it be techniques or the philosophies behind it. You make the art, the art does not make you.

Now if you are practicing Aikido and you become more aware of how precious life is and find yourself evolving as a person, then O' Sensei was right on in his beliefs and what he taught.

[aikihazen]

As I have posted in another forum. Just smile and nod at this Sensei's foolish arrogence and find a real Aikido Dojo.

Sadly having known a few of these types they end up getting people hurt...

William Hazen

[P Goldsbury]

Mr Goldsbury

In response to your comment, “your judgments about the art itself appear to be based on your experiences in one dojo," is correct!! I have visited other dojos and found them to be exceptional, particularly a Kokeiki dojo in Seattle. I remember a 7th dan Aikidoka at the Seattle dojo said,” Aikido is a marshal art and not a way of life.” Where here the saying is “Aikido is a way of life and not a martial art.”

Hello Mr Lecair,

Thank you for your reply.

Perhaps it s a mistake to see things in such 'either/or' terms. One of my teachers was a deshi at the Aikikai Hombu Dojo. For him aikido was most certainly a way of life, as well as a martial art. His name is K Chiba and he lives in San Diego.

I suppose it also depends on how 'philosophical' you want your aikido to be.
In my earlier post I mentioned practice in Hiroshima. Well, practice in fact involved just three of us: my two instructor colleagues and myself. We trained with weapons: bokken and jo. My colleagues have studied extensively with the late Shoji Nishio Shihan and so weapons and empty handed waza are seen as a seamless web. On the other hand, a regular visitor to Hiroshima is Masatake Fujita, who NEVER teaches weapons. You could certainly say that there is a different philosophical approach here. The issue here has nothing to with enlightenment, but concerns the internal strtucture of aikido as a martial art and how it is taught and practised.

Best regards,

[MarkF]

Aikido is probably both a way of life and a martial art, just as the founders of Judo said that Judo should be practiced outside the confines of the dojo. But some simply believe that "martial art" is just not a good translation of budo, and to call oneself a Martial Artist is just plain arrogant.

Donn Draeger called such gendai budo "civilian fighting art instead. He may have been onto something. From the topic post, while I do not think that was meant, it did make me think that some just do not like the term, and aikido or most other gendai combatives cannot really be called martial arts. This is simplistic and not always true, but I have met aikido practitioners and judo practitioners who really have taken both, along with karate or shorinji kempo, to new heights in how to live one's life. There is nothing so wrong in this as long as it doesn't take over one's life, just gives it the peace one deserves.

If people accept that aikido and others are not just a set of skills, and are pointed down the right path, then, perhaps, it isn't martial reality, but instead just another way of living. It need not become cultish to be so, and should definitely not.

Jigoro Kano made his explanations of judo outside the dojo to include no drink, tobacco, to keep oneself clean, and not to get into fights just to test technique, something that was becoming rampant during those early years. If one is going to teach aikido as a way of life then it should be something more down home and easily understandable, not some esoteric life lesson where each waza means something mysterious. The goals should be easily learned and seen, not that they are, but it should have an understandable goal.

As for competition not really being a fight, well, it is true if you compare it to that, but I have come to think of it as a certain kind of situation of "Here are the only tools/weapons you are going to use. Just deal with it." It may not be fighting in fighting per se, but the situation does call for all the defense one can muster and then catching one making the mistake of his life--a symbolic one to be sure, nevertheless, the fight is on, you have ten minutes to defend yourself, and here are the only weapons you can use. If that is so, then it really can be a fight and not an exhibition of the limitations.


Mark

[Saburo]

Jigoro Kano made his explanations of judo outside the dojo to include no drink, tobacco, to keep oneself clean, and not to get into fights just to test technique, something that was becoming rampant during those early years. If one is going to teach aikido as a way of life then it should be something more down home and easily understandable, not some esoteric life lesson where each waza means something mysterious. The goals should be easily learned and seen, not that they are, but it should have an understandable goal.

If you made it easy and readily understandable then you would cheapen it and it wouldn't stick.

[stoker]

I work out occasionally with some very gung ho Jiu Jitsu folks who keeping telling me Aikido does not work as they pick themselfs up off the mat. I just smile and agree before doing it to them again.

One gent tells me my kote gaeshi is 'crap' because I am not twisting his hand off his arm -- "Then why do you tap out or take ukemi to escape?" He'll usually shrug and walk in and receive a wake gatami.

[Jeffrey Goodwin]

Aikido is not a martial art!!??!! Oddly this is what I’m both reading, and being told by high ranking Aikidoka. “We don’t teach martial arts here!” This is what one of the instructors would say at the dojo, where I spent a few years at. .

I read this post and the subsequent threads with interest. Unfortonately I feel that some Aikidoka make "radical" comments like this because they think it makes them "cool". Aikido is a martial art, more specifically it is a martial discipline.

Aikido seeks to unify our mind, body and spirit and to enlighten us, it uses the medium of budo to that. Another example of something that does all of the above as well is Yoga but it clearly doesn't use budo/conflict/martial discipline as its vehicle. Aikido was created by one mans vision and understanding of Budo, it came from his practice and study of the martial arts.

[Jeffrey Goodwin]

I work out occasionally with some very gung ho Jiu Jitsu folks who keeping telling me Aikido does not work as they pick themselfs up off the mat. I just smile and agree before doing it to them again.

I missed this one before I posted. Nice one. I agree, Aikido is a lovely "secret" weapon.

[Judo_Iaidoka]

After my experience with aikido I would say its not really a martial art. It CAN be if you were to change alot on how it was taught as well as the mindset of why it is taught.