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Thread: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Self-defence

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    Default Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Self-defence

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/motorcycle_firearms.htm

    Motorcycle Firearms

    By Christopher Lee



    With the growing popularity of personal firearms carry among motorcyclists, it's important to find the weapon that best meets our rather specific self defense needs. On occasion, a drunk driver or a car driver experiencing road rage will purposefully ram a motorcycle, which never works out well for the motorcyclist.

    Use your superior agility and acceleration to evade the car if you can. However, because the driver is attacking the motorcyclist with a deadly weapon (the car), the motorcyclist is legally entitled to defend him or her self with lethal force, probably a firearm. Will you ever be in this situation? Let's hope not. But should you be, here are some suggestions that might just keep you alive:

    When selecting a firearm for motorcycle carry, opt for one that has a ported barrel, especially if your choice is a lightweight gun in a magnum caliber. Ported barrels are a relatively new technology, and they significantly reduce the recoil of the firearm. That means that when you are firing from a moving motorcycle, the shot will be less likely to disrupt your balance.


    Additionally, choose a high velocity medium bore cartridge (.357 Magnum, .38 Super, .357 Sig, or 9mm Luger+P). When you are firing at a moving vehicle, remember that the bullet must penetrate safety glass and still stay on target. .357/9mm high velocity or +P rounds are smaller in diameter than the big bore calibers, but pack a big punch; this translates into more penetration power. I use a Taurus Total Titanium Tracker, which is a very accurate seven shot .357 Magnum revolver.


    For the same reason, keep relatively heavy weight (for example 158 grain in .357 Magnum) full metal jacket or jacketed soft point ammo in the firearm when on the road. Especially avoid hollow point bullets, which provide less penetration than standard cast lead bullets.


    Practice firing the weapon from your motorcycle. For this, you need a large, privately owned, sparsely populated property area where you know ahead of time there will be no people wandering around. Start with dry fire practice. Pick a specific target (like a tree) as you are moving and track it, dry firing the gun 3-6 times at the target. Once you are comfortable taking your eyes off the road for the time it takes to fire 3-6 rounds, load the firearm and practice firing one round at a time at a paper target (so you can see where your bullets hit) in front of a safe backstop. Start with a smaller caliber if you have one available. (Another reason I like a .357 Magnum revolver is that you can use the same gun to fire the lighter .38 Special round.) Work your way up until you can empty all the chambers comfortably and accurately with full power ammunition.


    If you decide to fire, FIRE AT THE DRIVER, NOT THE CAR. Obvious in retrospect, make sure you decide to fire at the driver before you engage to avoid time-consuming, and therefore dangerous, mistakes.


    Once you hit the driver, get away from the car! The car could go ANYWHERE at that point, and the farther you move away from it, the less likely it is to accidentally hit you.
    If you are ever in a situation where you are being attacked with lethal force on the road, it goes without saying that you should try to escape by any means possible that does not endanger your life or the life of innocent bystanders. Evade if you possibly can, resorting to lethal counter-force only as a last resort.



    Christopher Lee is a Doctor of Psychology and has been a personal self defense instructor for over twelve years.

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    If you have enough space, time and control to aim and fire a handgun while riding a motorcycle, then you clearly aren't in imminent danger.
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    I'd like to see a LEO or similar post on the legality of that. I don't know of anybody who would really be able to aim a gun and still control the motorcycle at fairly low speeds. I realize a car is a fairly large target and it is trying to hit you so very likely to be coming in your direction it seems to me that using a gun to defend yourself in this situation would be dangerous to the general public. Also recommending heavy, hard, and high velocity rounds is just asking for them to go in one window and out another.
    Chris Lechtanski

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupert
    http://www.chuckhawks.com/motorcycle_firearms.htm

    Practice firing the weapon from your motorcycle. For this, you need a large, privately owned, sparsely populated property area ....
    ....and a third hand.....especially if you're right handed.....

    Though I know it can be done, the best defense is most likely a twist of the wrist....unless yer riding a moped!
    Last edited by elder999; 10th July 2005 at 22:05.
    Aaron J. Cuffee


    As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
    - H.L. Mencken

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    This sounds like somebody who plays too many video games. But, assuming you take this kind of thing seriously, then some questions.

    1. How do you carry? While concealed carry is presumably legal in your state, I'm guessing the grandmas with cell phones will complain to the local highway patrol if they see your hogleg strapped to the handlebars. Crossdraw? Shoulder holsters? Vests? Saddlebags? Each has advantages and disadvantages, but none of them are easily accessed while you're controlling a motorcycle being driven at a high rate of speed. Also, is the carry position amenable to off-hand draw? If not, what do you do if you have to put the bike down, or if your draw hand is busy shifting or some such?

    2. Now that you've drawn the piece, does it have a lanyard, so you don't lose it if you have to drop it in order to control your motorcycle? Or do you instead carry multiple backups, kinda like the Outlaw Josie Wales?

    3. How do you aim the firearm? If you're playing chicken (e.g., aiming straight for the other guy), you simply lay the piece across the handlebars, and fire it wherever the front wheel points. Likewise, if you're pacing (or doing a hit), then you ride up alongside and fire pointblank, just like Plains Indians killing buffalo. But the implication here seems to be that you're aiming over your shoulder, like in the cowboy movie chase scenes of the 1930s. Yikes.

    4. What bullet design and powder loads work best?

    5. Finally, do you wear gloves? Bicycle cops dismount to shoot, but they're still wearing their padded bicycle gloves, and lo! Accuracy often goes way down. http://www.ipmba.org/newsletter-04.htm

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    I know nothing of this subject... other than Movies

    Just how many times does this happen? How many examples of this event can be studied to deduce the most efficient, safe and effective methods? How many survivors are around to describe their experiences?

    Why do I keep imagining the kind of motorcycle rider that has also bought a special "Doobie Holder" from the back pages of Easyrider Motorcycle magazine...?
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

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    Talking

    LOL! I used to love 70s and 80s Easyrider magazine. And much like the comics of the same era, the small ads at the back were the best bit.

    Doobie holders, pool cues containing weaponry, brass knuckle 'paperweights', coke-spoon earrings... Quality!
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    My brother has packed a Ruger GP-100 .357 Magnum in his tank bag for a couple of decades. In addition to the driver, he also feels the engine block is a legitimate target.
    Harvey Moul

    Fish and visitors stink after three days - Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shitoryu Dude
    In addition to the driver, he also feels the engine block is a legitimate target.
    something he shares with Godfather of Soul JAMES BROWN!!... who was convicted of shooting his wife's car IIRC.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

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    Default Completely Irresponsible

    I tried writing a well thought out response to this. I realize the poster is not the author, but the ideas here are completely irresponsible. I expect better of budoka.

    Self defense is one thing, but sometimes it is necessary to take into account the rest of the people around you and consider whether your own well being is more valuable than theirs. Sometimes the answer is NO.

    95% of Motorcycles can outrun 99.5% of cars. Motorcycles require 2 hands to operate in GOOD conditions, and quadruply so when avoiding an impact.

    I won't even get into the simple physical problems of gun selection and training because you SHOULDN'T DO THIS.
    It's been said, but IF YOU HAVE TIME TO DRAW, AIM and FIRE from a moving motorcycle, it's not self defense anymore. it's murder. (and probably suicide too... )

    Hopefully a moderator will delete this whole thread before some moron tries to "practice" and ends up dead cause he didn't anticipate the shell casing from his 1911 would bounce INSIDE his jacket, or that it would be so HOT.
    (I was nearly killed when a wasp flew into my jacket while I was riding.)
    Having survived my own confrontation with Car v. Bike, I can assure you, the riding skills are all you have time for. Drive to the nearest police station as fast as you can.
    Michael Mason
    Shinkendo New York @ Brooklyn Dojo
    www.brooklyndojo.com/shinkendo

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    Being armed is being responsible - pulling a gun on a car is your last resort, but you better have that last resort available. Not every situation leaves you in the position to "outrun" a car, particularly in mountainous terrain. The police are typically not anyplace close by either.

    Put a few tens of thousands miles of roadtrip behind you while traveling our nation's backroads, parks, farm routes, and lesser known highways and you will quickly learn that packing a gun is mandatory.
    Harvey Moul

    Fish and visitors stink after three days - Ben Franklin

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    That might hold true as a basic self-defense tenet - but it doesn't square with controlling a motorcycle in close proximity to other vehicles. Especially not when you're a victim of road rage.

    I don't know much about handling guns, but I do know about riding motorcycles, and I know more than I would like about close encounters with cars.

    If you are a victim of road rage on a bike, your ONLY concern should be getting away from the situation. Attempting to do anything else is likely to end in (your) serious injury or death.

    I can see a situation in which you could pull over, dismount and then draw your gun to defend yourself. Advising anyone to do it while riding, however, is dangerously irresponsible. I think Michael hit the nail on the head here.

    Riding a bike in traffic takes all your concentration at the best of times. If you allow yourself to be distracted from controlling the bike while in imminent danger of collision - you will go down, I guarantee it.
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mason
    I tried writing a well thought out response to this. I realize the poster is not the author, but the ideas here are completely irresponsible. I expect better of budoka.

    Hopefully a moderator will delete this whole thread...
    I posted the article and link and made no comment. The article is out there, and seriosuly tries to make a point in terms of self-defence - something we here are interested in. Make of it what you will. You have a brain.

    As for me: I have ridden bikes for 25+ years and think the article is ridiculous. I think most 'intellegent' readers would see that, and also be able to read my opinion from the name I gave the thread. Also, I think it is incredibly funny, even more so because the writer is being serious about it. If some idiot tries it - and crashes - well - tough luck for idiots. PC wears very thin on me.

    Still, given the wild nature of rural America, maybe Shitoryu Dude is right ...

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