knee_restart

[JHorst]

Dear all,
today i would like to ask for your advices, for your experiences.
nearly 5 years i train aikido now, till now i did not have any bigger accident!
last Monday i trained irimi nage with one Aikidoka. Through inattention of myself, this 90 kg Aikidoka fall on my left knee.
Oh boy this was a pain.
very pity to me because my shodan was close.
so my question to you is have any body problems with
cruciate ligament!
i´m very impatience and want to start to train soon as possible.
Just it seems that i will need
at least 4 to 5 weeks. So is my hope


thanks in deed
Horst

[MikeWilliams]

Get it checked out and get an MRI scan.

You need to know if it is your cruciate ligament, and if it is a partial tear or a full tear (although I imagine you would have trouble even walking at the moment if the latter).

If it's a partial tear you might get back into training in 6 weeks or so - but be aware that it will be very easy to damage the knee further. If it's a full tear, be prepared for a long break from training, and possibly surgery.

See a doctor (preferably one who understands sports injuries) and a good physiotherapist. Do not rush back into training.

Hope you get well soon. Knee injuries suck.

[rachmass]

MRI all the way!

I tore my ACL 10 years ago or so and still train with a brace due to instability. It hasn't hindered my practice too terribly much (the brace makes breakfalls a real drag, but other than that it is okay) but I was off the mat for close to six months. Don't push it; your shodan will wait. If you do push it, you might well make it much worse.

[JHorst]

thanks for sharing.
yep i need now a lot of patience, do give my body time to heal.
my knee specialist said it is a unhappy triade.
right now i have a kneebandage for a couple of weeks.
how the keiko will be when i will start again i cannot imagine.
certainly it will be different.

regards
Horst

[kimiwane]

thanks for sharing.
yep i need now a lot of patience, do give my body time to heal.
my knee specialist said it is a unhappy triade.
right now i have a kneebandage for a couple of weeks.
how the keiko will be when i will start again i cannot imagine.
certainly it will be different.

regards
Horst

Find a "Feldenkrais Method" practitioner in your area and get an FI treatment.

[JHorst]

yep we have a Feldenkrais Group around my area.
first i will read some stuff about this Feldenkrais.
do you have good experience with this!
what kind of injury did you!
how was your first training after!

g´day
Horst

[kimiwane]

yep we have a Feldenkrais Group around my area.
first i will read some stuff about this Feldenkrais.

You might find this interesting:

http://www.feldenkrais-resources.com/

do you have good experience with this!
what kind of injury did you!

Lower back. Very painful. I could barely walk.
When the practitioner began, his touch was so light, I thought he was a phony. But I soon realized that he was drawing responses from deep nerve levels.

how was your first training after!

Better than the training was simply being able to walk again. And that came on me suddenly as I was on my way to a meeting and realized that I was walking along very fluidly without any pain! I had a good bit more of this treatment and study before I went back to aikido, but I finally did and it was good. The changes in my ability to perceive and respond to physical and emotional forces made me able to perform techniques better, take falls more safely and enjoy it all more.

Maybe your injury is really a sign that you don't want to train? Or you don't really want the black belt? Or you don't want to continue where you are, but if you just get the black belt, then life will be better, but...?

One of my teachers always said that we injure ourselves when we don't want to continue. His solution was to continue. But sometimes it's smarter to back it off a bit. If you do aikido when you don't really want to do aikido, especially when you're already injured, you could really get messed up seriously, with long-lasting spinal injuries. And a black belt isn't worth a life of that.

ki wo tsukete = "Turn on Your KI." = "BE CAREFUL" "Watch What You're Doing" And the best way to turn on your ki is to turn on your awareness, beginning with awareness of what you feel.

[JHorst]

Dear David, dear Aikidokas,
very interesting thoughts of you.
to convert something in my life is not always that easy.
to be a good father or to be a great Aikidoka.
For this innate characteristics are surely crucial. Or?
there is only one O'Sensei, there is only one Chuck Norris.
my peculiarity is to go to the maximum in my Keiko but on the other side I need t time to learn the Aikido technics. This is quite a challenge for me.
than there a younger Aikidokas, in my Dojo, which made his shodan in a much shorter time.
yep a shodan is a goal of mine, a challenge to me. Than it happen at my Dojo that the shodans after are not so activ any more. Exact this is the point what i want to make it better.
to see an injury as indications! For my life generally!
my body is important for my life here on earth. Now i have to accept my limitation.
to experience the mind body unity, let the universal energy flow through my body.
regards
Horst

[kimiwane]

to convert something in my life is not always that easy.
to be a good father or to be a great Aikidoka.
For this innate characteristics are surely crucial. Or?

Horst, the fortunate truth is that the innate characteristics are inborn in every human being. I have known hulking strongmen and tiny little men who could all throw me. And I've met bigger people than I who complied with my techniques. The truth is, the roots of every real martial arts technique are visible in little children as soon as they learn to stand--some are visible before the child can stand. Anyone can learn any art, and if they learn it at the child level, they can master it and become a great aikido man, or karate or judo man.

But if the choice is to be a great father or a great aikido man, you should choose "great father", especially if you already have a child. If not, then you might better pour yourself into aikido until you do get a child. I have posted some comments under the title "Lessons from babies" on the "Aikido and Judo" thread (I think it is).

I will go a little more into that here. As a father, you can observe pure human nature, both physical, mental and moral, in the growth of a child from infancy. You can watch universal human nature unfold before your eyes and see the roots of all human endeavor there, including judo, aikido, karate and kenjutsu. Childhood until about age six (when "education" tends to begin) is the human being's most intensive stage of learning. And children's mode of learning is mainly through the body. To watch an infant develop through the stages of being able to lift his head, roll over, crawl, pull up, stand and walk is to observe one of the most phenomenal processes in nature. And if you understand the principles of a really superior martial art, you can see the child express them in root form.

For instance, a child walks in baby steps, jerkily, uncertainly, slowly. But over time, that process matures and the individual walks like an adult (in the best cases). Likewise, you can see the baby making little "baby punches," "baby locks," etc. They are the roots of martial arts techniques just as "baby steps" are the roots of adult walking.

The problem is that once formal education begins, inner expression is suppressed and outward form is imposed on the mind and the body. The stage of intensive and almost limitless child learning is cut off cold. So most children don't mature into strong self defense ability.

there is only one O'Sensei, there is only one Chuck Norris.

And there is only one JHorst. The Feldenkrais Method that I mentioned is geared to give us access to the child mode of learning through kinesthetic experience. It is a powerful mode of learning, but the end result is that we finally express our own true individual nature, not as an X-degree black belt or a member of an organization, or even as a student of such and such a teacher. The purpose of Feldenkrais training is to allow the real self to recognize itself through its own body and how it directs the movement of that body. In the process, people tend to recognize where their emotions have been misdirected by external forces (social pressure) and they gain the courage to return to life as that self. At the same time, they find far greater capacity to engage in and learn the elements of things like dance, acting, martial arts, etc. The change is deeply personal and very effective and joyous.

my peculiarity is to go to the maximum in my Keiko but on the other side I need t time to learn the Aikido technics. This is quite a challenge for me.... i want to make it better.
to see an injury as indications! For my life generally!

Feldenkrais says that when we find a kind of movement difficult, it is because we have conflicting motivations for doing the movement. He was referring to judo in particular. We see an opening for a throw, but we have difficulty initiating the technique at the proper moment. If we have only the motivation to do judo, then the movement is very easy and natural and the technque is very clean.

But if we want to do judo, but also want to show up our training rival, and we also want to impress the young lady who is watching, and we also want to get even with our playground tormentors from twenty five years before, then we will find the technique very difficult to apply.

Still, that example was only multiple motivations. What if the multiple motivations conflict with one another? What if we are training but we feel guilty about being away from our family responsibilities? What if we really want to go home but we don't want our teacher to say we lack bushido? What if the teacher humiliates us as individuals, but we stay with him out of a desire to get the black belt?

Then there will be emotional disturbance as well as difficulty in doing techniques. And there will be injuries. That's the quickest way out of the responsibility that a black belt represents. If you get injured, then you can basically stop training, yet keep your hand in as some kind of advisor.

None of these situations are healthy. The only healthy way to do martial arts is with a clear mind and a fit body. It may be that you need to find a different place to train, or you may need some private instruction on some points of technique.

But I say, go experience Feldenkrais and see what a difference it can make.

my body is important for my life here on earth. Now i have to accept my limitation.
to experience the mind body unity, let the universal energy flow through my body.

To really experience that, try Feldenkrais.

Best wishes.

[Mr. Matt]

okay two things,

first off, get back to the dojo NOW!!! but stay off the mat. go to every class you can, dress out if your sensei thinks it's appropriate, and sit on the edge of the mat or off it with a notebook. TAKE LOTS AND LOTS OF NOTES. Clark-sensei once talked about "grinding the edge and polishing the mirror", I don't remeber if this was his or if he was quoting someone else, but when we're on the mat doing techniques, breaking down principles, we're griding our edge down. Doing the work. Getting sharp.
But there's times when we need to step back, and do some thinking, meditating, try to get some understanding from the sidelines. Polish the mirror.
(and I'm probably butchering this lesson, so if it don't make sense, it's my fault)

But an injury is may times a gift, a chace you don't get often. Get off the mat, but be in the class. Watch... I mean really WATCH. Listen to what the teacher has to say w/o worrying about if you're going to do it right or not. Analyze what they're doing. Take notes. Ask appropriate questions. Just 'cause you're hurt doesn't mean you can't train, it just means you can't throw anybody.

secondly, don't rush getting back on the mat. it won't do any good to just reinjure yourself. then you're depriving everyone in you dojo a training partner for even longer (or maybe permanently). very selfish. take it easy, don't push yourself.

good luck.