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Thread: Shotokan groups

  1. #1
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    Default Shotokan groups

    Hello,

    because of the number of world wide members, and the quantity of its publications, the Nihon Karate Kyokai (JKA) is probably the best known Shotokan organization. However, by no means the JKA is representative of the whole Shotokan school.

    Below I would like to present a small list of various groups and currents, which are practising interpretations of Gichin Funakoshi's karate. (additions are welcome)
    ______________________________________________

    (1) Nihon Karatedo Shotokai (S. Egami; this is the follow-up organization of G. Funakoshi's own group)

    (2) Shoto Domonkai (T. Watanabe)

    (3) Nihon Shoto Rengokai (N. Mizuda)

    (4) Shotokan Karate of America (T. Oshima)

    (5) Nihon Karate Shoto Renmei (T. Asai)

    (6) Kokusai Shotokan Karate Renmei (H. Kanazawa)

    (7) Nihon Karatedo Yutenkai

    (8) Shoto-Ryu (T. Shimizu)

    (9) Gima-Ha Shotokan-Ryu (S. Gima)

    (10) Okano-Ha Shotokan-Ryu (T. Okano)

    (11) Kase-Ha Shotokan Ryu (T. Kase)

    (12) Chidokan (T. Sasaki)
    ______________________________________________

    regards,

  2. #2
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    Default

    Isn't Okano-ha known as Kenkojuku?

    Rob

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    Hello,

    T. Okano named his dojo "Kenkojuku Budokan" and taught within the walls of the same his brand of Shotokan-Ryu, i.e. Okano-Ha Shotokan-Ryu. The term "juku" signifies "private school" and would point to a building. It is the same "juku" as in "Meiseijuku", the place of G. Funakoshi's first dojo in Tokyo, the "Meiseijuku Dojo".

    By the way, "Kenkojuku" could be translated as "Private School of Humble Exchange".

    regards,
    Henning Wittwer

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    Hi Guys,

    Based on the above, may I ask who are the true inheritors of Funakoshi’s shotokan?

    Cheers

    Damien

  5. #5
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damo
    Hi Guys,

    Based on the above, may I ask who are the true inheritors of Funakoshi’s shotokan?

    Cheers

    Damien

    Egami would have been the most senior out of all those guys but even his group has little resemblance to the stuff you see in Okinawa.
    Most of the others are just JKA break off groups.

  6. #6
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    Hello,

    it is true, that 3 groups of the above list were former members of M. Nakayama's JKA, namely the organizations of T. Asai, H. Kanazawa, and Kase-Ha Shotokan-Ryu. While T. Asai and H. Hanazawa received instruction from M. Nakayama, it was G. Hironishi of the Shotokai, who mainly influenced T. Kase.

    The question, who was the inheritor of G. Funakoshi, is an interesting one. Doubtless Nihon Karatedo Shotokai is the institutional heir, but G. Funakoshi never appointed a technical successor in the last decade of his life. During his first years in Tokyo it was T. Shimoda, who acted as his personal assistant. After T. Shimoda's untimely death in 1934, Yoshitaka Funakoshi was officially named as G. Funakoshi's successor. However, he also passed away in young years in 1945.

    Regards,

    Henning Wittwer

  7. #7
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    Most of the others are just JKA break off groups.
    You can also scratch off T. Okano's Kenkojuku as a break off of JKA. Kenkojuku is highly influenced by Gigo Funakoshi, JKA is not. Furthermore Kenkojuku was formed years before the JKA came about.

    (3 out of 12 is not most)
    Last edited by Bustillo, A.; 5th August 2005 at 12:41.

  8. #8
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    You can also scratch off T. Okano's Kenkojuku as a break off of JKA. Kenkojuku is highly influenced by Gigo Funakoshi, JKA is not. Furthermore Kenkojuku was formed years before the JKA came about.

    (3 out of 12 is not most)
    (1) Nihon Karatedo Shotokai (S. Egami; this is the follow-up organization of G. Funakoshi's own group) NO

    (2) Shoto Domonkai (T. Watanabe) Don't know

    (3) Nihon Shoto Rengokai (N. Mizuda) Don't know

    (4) Shotokan Karate of America (T. Oshima)

    (5) Nihon Karate Shoto Renmei (T. Asai) YES

    (6) Kokusai Shotokan Karate Renmei (H. Kanazawa) YES

    (7) Nihon Karatedo Yutenkai ?

    (8) Shoto-Ryu (T. Shimizu)

    (9) Gima-Ha Shotokan-Ryu (S. Gima)

    (10) Okano-Ha Shotokan-Ryu (T. Okano)

    (11) Kase-Ha Shotokan Ryu (T. Kase) YES

    (12) Chidokan (T. Sasaki) YES

    I count 4.

  9. #9
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    (1) Nihon Karatedo Shotokai (S. Egami; this is the follow-up organization of G. Funakoshi's own group) NO
    (2) Shoto Domonkai (T. Watanabe) Don't know
    (3) Nihon Shoto Rengokai (N. Mizuda) Don't know
    (4) Shotokan Karate of America (T. Oshima)
    (5) Nihon Karate Shoto Renmei (T. Asai) YES
    (6) Kokusai Shotokan Karate Renmei (H. Kanazawa) YES
    (7) Nihon Karatedo Yutenkai ?
    (8) Shoto-Ryu (T. Shimizu)
    (9) Gima-Ha Shotokan-Ryu (S. Gima)
    (10) Okano-Ha Shotokan-Ryu (T. Okano)
    (11) Kase-Ha Shotokan Ryu (T. Kase) YES
    (12) Chidokan (T. Sasaki) YES
    I count 4.
    Egani was Shoto kai.

    You wrote, most on the list were just break away JKA off-shoots.

    JKA = NAkayama.

    T. Okano, Kenkojuku, and some of the others never had anything to do with Nakayama nor did they ever belong to the JKA.

    4 out of 12 is 1/3 ...if you call that most...

  10. #10
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    Default

    This thread has been edited due to temper flare.

  11. #11
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    Hello,

    because I. Obata, teacher of Chidokan founder T. Sasaki, was a member of the early JKA, it is a correct observation, that Chidokan was an JKA split off.

    Hoping that it becomes not too boring, I would like to point out, however, that there were two phases in JKA history. In the beginning the JKA unified a lot of practitioners of G. Funakoshi's "Japanese Karate" (but not all) and M. Nakayama was just one teacher among many. Although there was no clear line of demarcation, gradually many senior teachers left the original JKA, leaving M. Nakayama as technical primus of this group after the death of G. Funakoshi in 1957. From this point on, it was M. Nakayama, who set the standards of this group and therefore we could define this second phase by the expression "M. Nakayama's JKA".

    T. Sasaki established Chidokan in 1954 and he had nothing to do with M. Nakayama's JKA, since his major influences came from the karate club of the Waseda University and I. Obata.

    By the way, T. Sasaki's technical norms for Shotokan-Ryu became the officially approved (whatsoever this means) ones of the FAJKO.

    Regards,

    Henning Wittwer

  12. #12
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    Egani was Shoto kai.

    You wrote, most on the list were just break away JKA off-shoots.

    JKA = NAkayama.

    T. Okano, Kenkojuku, and some of the others never had anything to do with Nakayama nor did they ever belong to the JKA.

    4 out of 12 is 1/3 ...if you call that most...

    Interesting. I have been reading up on Okano.
    On one website he mentions he started karate at 19 years old in 1941.
    http://www.shotojuku.com/karate_history.htm

    1941, Master Tomosaburo Okano started karate At 19 years old with Mister Toshio Igarashi, a member of the "Pine Wave school".
    1942, Mister Igarashi brought and introduced Master Okano to the Shotokan dojo and became a direct student of Master Gichin Funakoshi and his third son, Master Gigo Funakoshi.
    1942, On October 10th, Master Okano with the help of Misters Suzuki Shinjo, Kaneko Isamu and Takagi Yoshitomo, established the "KenkoKai Karate-Bu" a karate research club in Hachioji-shi Tokyo

    And on these website it states he founded Kenkokai in 1941.
    http://scokd.tripod.com/id32.html
    http://cehs.unl.edu/karate/shotoka.html
    Our karate organization is affiliated with Master Okano Tomosaburo, Soke (Founder), Shotokan Okano-Ha Karate-Do Kenkojuku which is based in Tokyo, Japan. Okano Sensei, who founded Kenkojuku in 1941, was one of Funakoshi Yoshitaka Sensei's (son of Funakoshi Gichin) closest

    And yet on this one it states he joined Shotkan in 1941 and founded Kenkokai in 1942.
    http://championmartialarts.tripod.com/History.htm
    Master Okano, Kenkojuku's founder, began his training under Yoshitaka Funakoshi (the third son of Gichin Funakoshi and responsible for further perfection of Shotokan waza). He joined Shotokan in 1941. In 1942 Okano Sensei established "Kenko-Kai" karatedo research organization, the forerunner of "Kenkojuku". Master Okano founded Kenkojuku, (1945) based on the principles of modesty (humbleness) fostering a gentle kind heart, and to endeavor in the training with one another while maintaining a school spirit.
    -------------------
    So it seems Okano started karate in 1941 at 19 years old and according to some at the ripe old age of 20 started his own style a year later.
    Another interesting point is how come a 19 year old in Japan in 1941 is not doing some military service….
    Last edited by Troll Basher; 7th August 2005 at 14:23.

  13. #13
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Well it looks like I got one questioned answered. Okano was in the Air Force and discharged in 1945
    http://marinshotokan.com/okano%20profile.html


    Okano Sensei was born in Tokyo in 1922. In childhood he was already showing his talent learning Kendo and horseback riding. In 1941, he started practicing Karate under his Sempai Mr. Toshio Igarashi, a member of Takushoku University Karate club.
    In the following year, Mr. Igarashi introduced Okano Sensei to the Shotokan dojo in Mejiro, Tokyo. Master Okano entered the dojo to become a student of Grand Master Gichin Funakoshi "The Father of Modern Karate" and his third son, Master Yoshitaka. On October 10th of the same year, Okano established The Kenkokai Karate club gathering people eager to learn it.
    Through it was in wartime, Okano kept coming to the Shotokan dojo three times a week all the way from Hachioji City.
    After the end of the war in 1945 Okano was discharged from the Air Force, and had to face his dearest teacher Yoshitaka's death. At this point the Kenkokai was revived.

  14. #14
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    Default Differences???

    Hi Guys,

    With so many 'shotokan' groups what are the fundemental differences, now I not talking about 'the left leg moves to right leg before the kick or the other way around' type differences, but fumdementals in the delivery system (if any)?

    Cheers

    Damien Walker

  15. #15
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    Hello,

    one of the most fundamental differences between the various Shotokan groups would be an ideological point:

    According to S. Egami, one of G. Funakoshi's basic ideas was: "Karate ni shiai wa nai." (There is no competition in Karate). Now there are on the one hand a lot of Shotokan groups, like JKA and Chidokan, which are very competition orientated, while on the other hand there are those, which completely refuse tournaments (e.g. Shotokai).

    Then there are varying technical conceptions and interpretations. Some groups, for example, claim to follow the way of Yoshitaka Funakoshi instead of G. Funakoshi and so they give fudo-dachi the priority. Without too much historical knowledge, others think that fudo-dachi belongs only to the kata Sochin (Hakko) and therefore are calling it sochin-dachi. A colleague of M. Nakayama, M. Miyata, used to perform fudo-dachi oftentimes, but it was M. Nakayama's way of execution, which became the technical standard of the JKA. M. Miyata's form could be viewed in the book "Dynamic Karate" by M. Nakayama on p. 92, 176, 202.

    I also wondered about T. Okano's reasons to establish his own group so early, but found no answer.

    Regards,

    Henning Wittwer

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